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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Any corporate parents out there? Apprenticeships.

37 replies

bgmum · 21/04/2024 10:25

DD has decided on apprenticeship route into corporate career instead of Uni. She’s done incredibly well in getting offers from a number of areas. We’ve got no idea on how to guide her (media/teaching) apart from go with your heart - she’s going round in circles.

  1. JP Morgan - 4 years leading to a degree in Applied Finance from Exeter Uni. JPM will not allocate areas of business until A Level grades come in. Bournemouth, away from home.
  2. KPMG - 5 years leading to chartered accountancy. Manchester based - home.
  3. PWC - 2 years Consulting leading to L4 Certificate from (new as I understand) Chartered MC Institute. Then on to join Grad Scheme for Consulting for 3 years leading to L7 Cert. Manchester based.
  4. (Not on table as yet, but just in case that comes through too) Lloyds Banking Audit leading to Chartered Internal Audit L7 qualification. Bristol.
Her instinct is saying PWC because she likes the firm (did work experience there) and because it is client facing. What are your thoughts, corporate gurus? What route makes her a peg in a certain area? What route leads to corporate choice? I have to assume they’re all well respected routes because of status of firms, but am I right? Thank you!
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mynameiscalypso · 21/04/2024 10:29

Although I am ex-PwC, I'd go for KPMG myself. Having an accountancy qualification will be so much better in the longer term. I'd be very reluctant for an internal audit role (sorry to any internal auditors out there!). I also don't like Bournemouth very much so that would put me off JPM!

mynameiscalypso · 21/04/2024 10:30

Oh, and, I think consulting teams are struggling a lot at the moment for work with redundancies etc.

northerngoldilocks · 21/04/2024 10:37

I'd say KPMG too. The CA route is equivalent to a masters qualification. Also being able to live at home at least at first is a massive bonus.

northerngoldilocks · 21/04/2024 10:39

Also- the qualification KPMG are offering is less likely to restrict options later. I work for another big 4 and we have apprentices on this route and having seen them progress they do very well.

titchy · 21/04/2024 11:11

Im not corporate but would echo others in suggesting KPMG. The PWC offer is only for two years, and doesn't even lead to a graduate level qualification. They may promise they'll put her on the grad scheme (without being a graduate Confused) in two years time, but there'd be no guarantee of that. If their consultancy business shrinks they won't be taking people on in a couple of years.

NoMoreWork · 21/04/2024 11:14

Agree with the above. The CA/ ACA qualification is the best on offer from your list in terms of future opportunities.

mitogoshi · 21/04/2024 11:39

Accountancy has so many more options. Consulting is very cut throat and heard about very long working hours

PerpetualOptimist · 21/04/2024 11:45

My observations for your DD would be:

Think about the track record of the various schemes. Are they longstanding? I flag this as longstanding schemes are more likely to have local managers and central HR functions familiar with how to settle in, manage and progress school leaver apprentices. The website Ratemyapprenticeship can also provide a bit of a feel for this.

Longstanding schemes are more likely to offer evidence that school leavers do genuinely climb the corporate ladder in the same way as graduates. This latter point is definitely worth probing in relation to the PwC offer as the Junior Management Consultant role is a much more recent creation than, say, their equivalent accountancy apprenticeships.

In addition, clarify whether you are being offered degree level (ie L6-7) from the outset or L4 'with the possibility of progression to L7' (which might depend on future recruitment reqs as much as exam passes). The PwC offer sounds like it is more the latter; equally, the KPMG audit route, for example, is actually AAT, then the ACA, so is that being offered as a continuous pathway from the outset?

Think about how niche or otherwise the career is likely to be and where, across the country, other equivalent roles can be found as you progress in your career. The JPM centre in Bournemouth is huge (Dorset's largest employer) but the financial services cluster in Bournemouth is relatively modest in size. So it probably means sticking with JPM over the long term if you want to remain in Bournemouth and/or moving to London or to other niche locations with similar corporate banking back office functions. By contrast, the audit and consultancy routes potentially offer greater opportunities to adjust career path and location over time, if desired. They are all different roles so you need to be very clear about that too. Audit and back office FS opps are no everyone's cup of tea.

I have DC who moved away from home to take up school leaver schemes in different locations. They responded well to that challenge but you do need to have a plan and be mentally resilient. I would also say Bristol and, to a lessor extent, Bournemouth will be expensive. Manchester does allow for living at home initially and keeping connected to existing family and social networks.

All the above implies I am not being wholly positive about the PwC opportunity. This is not the case. If your DD got a good feel about the PwC corporate culture, then that is really important. The main thing would be to probe whether those going down the Junior Management Consultant route do genuinely push on and through. Even if things did not pan out, leaving after two years with a L4, having earned money and gained really interesting experience, would still allow for other paths to be followed. Your DD would still only be 20 then.

bgmum · 21/04/2024 11:47

Wow guys! Thank you so much - great points, well made. Very clear corporate brains at the work, instead of my artsy whimsy..

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WaitingForMojo · 21/04/2024 11:47

A corporate parent is a local authority with parental responsibility for a looked after child!

bgmum · 21/04/2024 11:48

dies accountancy at KPMG allow client interaction - I presume it depends on your area?

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Anjea · 21/04/2024 11:51

bgmum · 21/04/2024 11:48

dies accountancy at KPMG allow client interaction - I presume it depends on your area?

Yes. I agree with the others and would advise the KPMG one.

RockaLock · 21/04/2024 11:52

I would assume that at KPMG your DD would be in the audit team, if it's for the ACA qualification, and if so, she'd be out at clients for a lot of the time.

RockaLock · 21/04/2024 11:54

RockaLock · 21/04/2024 11:52

I would assume that at KPMG your DD would be in the audit team, if it's for the ACA qualification, and if so, she'd be out at clients for a lot of the time.

Oh, sorry, I think they've changed the rules since I qualified! Audit not necessary at all.

So she won't necessarily be in audit, but I would have still thought she'd be client facing a fair bit.

bgmum · 21/04/2024 11:54

You’re so right - I knew I’d heard that term. I meant the capital C, small p type 😜

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bgmum · 21/04/2024 11:56

They seem to call everything accountancy ‘audit’ at this stage, unless it’s tax.

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Madcats · 21/04/2024 12:16

Another one recommending the Chartered accountant route. Once you have the qualification under your belt it is pretty easy to move departments (be it to tax, insolvency, corporate finance, consulting - they keep renaming these depts) either around the UK or abroad. Consultancy is more of a "hire and fire" department, thanks to their clients' budgets or lack of them.

I've not worked for KPMG (trained at EY and then went down the consulting and then restructuring route at PwC). It is great to have so many peers training at the same time (there are hefty chunks of long, dull nights working in those initial years, so it is good to have some moral support). Annoyingly my DD did virtual work experience at PwC last summer and I think it put her off for life!

Tarantella6 · 21/04/2024 12:18

KPMG will keep her options open much more than the others. It's also much easier to work / study if you're living at home and Mum is cooking dinner 😉

mynameiscalypso · 21/04/2024 12:27

bgmum · 21/04/2024 11:48

dies accountancy at KPMG allow client interaction - I presume it depends on your area?

Yes, in order to qualify as an accountant, you need to meet certain targets in terms of number of hours. At a firm like KPMG almost all of that will be client work and, as a junior on the team, you'd expect them to spend quite a lot of time at client sites.

bgmum · 21/04/2024 12:34

mynameiscalypso · 21/04/2024 12:27

Yes, in order to qualify as an accountant, you need to meet certain targets in terms of number of hours. At a firm like KPMG almost all of that will be client work and, as a junior on the team, you'd expect them to spend quite a lot of time at client sites.

These are the things we just don’t know - thank you

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bgmum · 21/04/2024 12:48

Thanks @PerpetualOptimist for your detailed evaluation - so good for her to see. Your point about being 20 and having other opportunities is one I considered, but will she be this lucky again?? Not that it is all luck, she’s done the research, must come over as strong etc. thanks

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blue345 · 21/04/2024 12:50

I'm an ex ACA/audit at a big four and then went into corporate finance/investment banking. I'd echo PPs, KPMG sounds the best and internal audit is even more tedious than audit.

I work in investing now and my ACA is still useful and opens doors. My son is thinking of going into IB and as far as corporate finance is concerned, you're better not to go straight in as they worked the analysts like dogs. Most of my peers joined 3-4 post qualification from accountancy or law firms so you're keeping your options open if you do down the accountancy route.

There has been some culling of consultants at the big four - Deloitte has had quite a few redundancies and EY stopped their summer internships scheme for consultants halfway through this year. A few of my friends are big four partners (including one who was at KPMG) and they seemed to imply that KPMG is struggling, although I don't know the reasons.

bgmum · 21/04/2024 12:54

Madcats · 21/04/2024 12:16

Another one recommending the Chartered accountant route. Once you have the qualification under your belt it is pretty easy to move departments (be it to tax, insolvency, corporate finance, consulting - they keep renaming these depts) either around the UK or abroad. Consultancy is more of a "hire and fire" department, thanks to their clients' budgets or lack of them.

I've not worked for KPMG (trained at EY and then went down the consulting and then restructuring route at PwC). It is great to have so many peers training at the same time (there are hefty chunks of long, dull nights working in those initial years, so it is good to have some moral support). Annoyingly my DD did virtual work experience at PwC last summer and I think it put her off for life!

Thanks @Madcats. Online sucks. DD got involved in Student Room chat to feel her way. Interestingly, she had a bad experience of admin from EY that others complained of too. Poor of them to get that wrong, when interview staff were great.

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pongy · 21/04/2024 12:57

It’s worth her thinking about if she wants to be an accountant/auditor or management consultant. I don’t disagree with anyone above that the accounting qualification is useful - IF you’re happy to do the slog and want that type of job at the end of it. I’m a management consultant, having worked at a pure consultancy and now at one of the Big 4. People who are from the Big 4 (obviously!) love accounting but it’s not the only viable or useful entry point into a career. Those with a pure consulting background would probably disagree. I personally would have disliked and not been suited for the accounting route - it doesn’t suit my personality and is a lot of exams! I am glad to have gone straight into consulting. So here is one vote for the PWC option.

Oblomov24 · 21/04/2024 12:59

Congratulations to dd, she has done incredibly well to get such offers. Ds1 turned down EY and BDO for PwC Flying Start, but, I can't advise which to go for, I have heard of people having problems at all of them. Which one is she preferring atm?