Advice on Modern Languages and Linguistics at Oxf

[TokyoBouncyBall]

DD is in Year 12 and after receiving a really good report (headed for all A stars and the pride of her French department) suddenly wants to apply to Oxford for French and Linguistics.

I know nothing, can you help. In particular, how hard is it to get in? Will her GCSE grades matter (the relevant ones are all As, sciences are 7,8). She has ADHD and is medicated, does this have any bearing on anything.

She's obsessive about sociolinguistics and is going to try and find a college with teaching staff who specialise in this, but what else should she do?

@foxglovetree no MFL test at all? My DD did tests at interview. No big issue but I’m not sure interviews differentiate candidates well - but what do I and @StrangewaysHereWeCome know! Both wrong but a commentary on a lien is a test!

Only tests that are used at multiple universities, eg the TMUA, the TARA, the LNAT. Other subjects that used to have an Oxford-specific test aren’t using it any more and will test the skills at interview instead.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying/guide-for-applicants/admissions-tests

It's important to remember that for Oxbridge entry, the interviewers are not only looking for aptitude in the selected subject (and with ML that includes critiquing an unseen passage in the chosen language/s), they are also assessing whether the interviewee is a good fit with the university's style of learning humanities' subjects - eight-week terms, tutorials of one two or three students so there is no hiding from formulating and expressing your ideas, demanding reading lists, two essays a week. That means an applicant could have aptitude for the subject and A+ x 3 predicted grades but not be given an offer because, for example, their speaking skills are not strong.

Typo

Stats are meaningless. I have a DH and a sibling who attended one of each and they are shockingly well connected and well employed. Humanities, both of them. Sibling is a few decades younger than me, so this is not old news.

@LarissatheDragon Frankly, your anecdote isn’t what’s happening at all! Look at the stats on the Oxford web site! Often ordinary dc don’t get well connected because they stay in their bubble. It’s ludicrous to think Oxford always gives first class employment or connections! It gives a platform for work and many companies employ uni blind. Who you know is besides the point in 2026.

I just said the stats are meaningless, so I won't be looking at them - people doing exciting things with other clever people are not contributing their information for these purposes, they are too busy.

@LarissatheDragon There’s still way more of them than your anecdotes. Most people see employability as a guide and would expect to see Management or PPE with higher employment stats than Norse. I’d rather believe Oxford than you!

For employability outcomes for Humanities grads, it’s well worth reading the report that Oxford published in 2023. It followed more than 9000 graduates over about 20 years. They did follow up interviews to assess the impact of Covid and AI. It is quite uplifting data for those (like me) who believe in the value of the Humanities.

You can access the full report via this link (which gives an overview if you don’t want the read the whole thing).

https://www.humanities.ox.ac.uk/article/new-research-shows-how-studying-the-humanities-benefits-young-peoples-future-careers-and-wid

how were her gcses in comparison to her school? :)

I assume her gcse's were really good for her school? My daughter is really worried because despite her being so talented for languages, she got 3x9s,3x8s and 3x7s which wasn't high at all for the context of her school.

@foxglovetree That report is correct in what it covers, but there were some grads interviewed who were seeking jobs at the best of times - it’s quite different now. Before the cap on student numbers being lifted and before the 2008 crash, grads did have better employment prospects and a better grad salary premium. So much more favourable than now and far more private school dc I expect. There’s many strengths highlighted in the report, but not earnings. Today, the better paying jobs and degrees that lead to them are far more in demand. The employment scene has changed.

DD's school is a high-achieving one, with 46%+ of pupils bring awarded all 7s to 9, so I would say her GCSEs were good from a national perspective but not exceptional for her school. So your assumption isn't correct, happily for your DD. NB no private tuition involved with my DD, but regular school attendance, and consistent diligence with homework and revision.

Your DD may be worrying about her GCSE results needlessly, for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, all her GCSE grades are high (all A* and A stars under the old letter grading system). Remember GCSEs are just one of the factors considered when assessing applications, and it is not the case that only all 9s will do for Oxbridge. What would be more useful to consider are the grades she achieved for MFL and other essay subjects such as English literature and history. The offer grades are likely to reflect the fact that ML is one of the less competitive subjects - in my DD's case 3 x A.

A good investment of time would be to a) extend her knowledge of her chosen languages by any means possible - see my last post b) regularly practise responding to unseen texts (? random photocopies of pages from books in the school library) to develop habits of language analysis under time pressure. Showing awareness of grammar is especially important. Recording herself so she can listen to herself improve would also be a good idea.

Thank you so much for answer!!! she must've still achieved above average for her school! This is why she is worrying.
For A levels she takes = French, spanish, English literature and economics.
But her lowest gcses were English literature language and history with 7s. and then 8s in maths + sciences and 9s in French spanish and German.
I wonder if she will be fine - she also doesn't know which college to pick and some ppl. have said open application is a better idea

@law4569 I wonder if you might be over thinking this. Your DC GCSEs are great and will not be a barrier to getting an interview. My understanding is that it is only those applicants from schools with below average GCSEs that get extra consideration. I think she should just apply if the Oxford course appeals to her. My DD is just finishing her 3rd year of ML

As to college a good % of candidates are reallocated often due to the numerous combinations of subjects. My DD was reallocated to a college she'd ruled out but now loves. Your DD will not be disadvantaged by an Open Application but if she particularly likes a college that does her subject combination then apply there. MLs have department admissions meetings and do lots of sorting at a co-ordinated department level.

I do hope you can persuade her not to worry - difficult I know. 7 is a high grade, even if it's her lowest. Does her school have any links with a college? Another way to pick is to look at the specialisms of teaching staff and apply to their college https://www.mod-langs.ox.ac.uk/people/professors-and-associate-professors There are useful resources here https://www.oxbridgementors.co.uk/ There are various free mentoring services run by Oxbridge alumni.

It might be worth mentioning to your DD that mine was intent on reading music until her switch to French in Y12, having decided that music was not sufficiently academic and that the life of a classical music professional, constantly on the road, would not suit her. In other words, she could not tell the story of a long-held ambition to study French at Oxford. Her attitude was very much 'I'm going to give it a go and see what happens'.

Once your DD has predicted A level grades, she will be able to decide whether to apply. Does her school offer support to Oxbridge applicants?

Thank you! You're right I might be overthinking this! Did you daughter do well for her school?

@law4569 yes she did do well in GCSEs but I don’t think that was material to her getting an offer. It was her passion for the languages she wanted to study and the extra books and poetry she’d read beyond the A Level curriculum that probably helped. She wrote about these in her PS and they questioned her on them. If your DS is doing an ab initio language then read some of that literature in translation and do a little memorise / duo lingo.

Your DD can’t change her GCSE results now so best to move forward. And Oxford is only one out of five places on UCAS so no harm applying. I assume she has an least AAA predicted grades.
All the very best -

Thank you! so would you say 7s in humanities is fine?

@law4569 I'm chipping in here having returned to this thread with a kindly meant reality check. You are coming across still as anxious and over-invested in this. What your daughter needs from you now is encouragement to apply, reassurance that her GCSE grades are fine, and interest in the things she does to extend her knowledge beyond the A level syllabus. You are still focussed on two GCSE grade 7s, which are fine, not in the MFLs she wanrs to study, and which cannot be changed. No-one here can second-guess Oxford admissions tutors. That being the case, your job now is to leave consideration of grades behind and concentrate on being your DD's cheerleader.

In a nutshell, she has nothing to lose by applying, a lot to gain, and plenty of options if Oxford says no.

Thank you! I just feel bad because I don't actually know whether her gcses are good enough - most people on the sub said no so I feel guilty about encouraging her when im not sure if its going to go anywhere.

You have not absorbed any of the advice on this thread! You began with the worry last month that your DD's GCSE grades were not good enough. Today you are worrying about exactly the same thing. Why are you determined to cling on to this misplaced worry? It is not good for you and it's very bad for your DD because it will discourage her from being ambitious.

If we were sitting face to face, I would be looking you in the eye and saying the following, very firmly:

• every poster on here has said her GCSE grades are good enough to apply or that GCSEs are not that important but you have taken away that they are not good enough.

They have also said GCSEs are one of a list of factors considered. Listen to them!

• no parent can second-guess admissions tutors, at Oxford or any university.
• ask yourself what happens to the notion of parental encouragement when you conclude, as you have done, that a parent should only encourage a child when they are confident they will succeed. Your DD has not said: 'Mum, I want to be a self-made billionaire by next week.' She has said, effectively, 'I am a student with good GCSE grades, including the top grade in two languages, and I want to apply to Oxford.' To quote the fabulous Kemi Badenoch, do your job! Say 'How exciting. What can I do to support you.'

@law4569 Your DD having 7s in Humanities GCSEs will not be a barrier as long as her A Level predicted grades are AAA or above.

Please do encourage her to apply.

Do you think? I thought 7s in English was limiting

No it's not limiting! Another day and you are still whittling. Honestly, OP, you are not being fair to posters who have taken their time to help you. Everyone has said your DD should apply. Many have shared the experience of their own DCs with you in good faith.

You will doubtless pick up my cross tone. I am cross. Speaking only for myself, people genuinely want to help, but they don't want the piss taken out of them, which is what you are now doing by asking the same question repeatedly and ignoring the answer. What ever is the point of asking for advice only to ignore it?

Here's your choice:

1. Reassure your DD that lots of Mumsnetters have said she should apply for modern languages at Oxford and that her GCSE grades are fine, subject to predicted A level grades (if Oxford make an offer, it's likely to be A, A, A).
2. Cling on for dear life to your entrenched belief that 7s in English and humanities mean your DD is a non-starter as far as Oxbridge entry is concerned and encourage her to abandon her ambition and lower her sights.

Please think first of your daughter and choose the first, because that's the right thing for a mother to do.

@IdaGlossop Looking at the Oxford MFL web site, @law4569 might have a point if English is a 7 at GCSE. They do want to see “willingness and ability to express ideas clearly both in writing and orally”. They also talk about candidates being edged out by those with stronger all round claims. They then talk about “future promise and aptitude in literacy and cultural studies”. This to me, it saying they rather like English A level and or History/Politics. Without trawling back, what A levels is @law4569 DD studying. Around 40% of those interviewed get in but I’m not wholly convinced that a 7 in English is ok. It’s a bit light because this is a literature heavy course. But - nothing ventured…..

@Juja Does your DD have a 7 in English or higher? What A levels?