4th a'level for medicine

[autumn666]

Hi, my DS is in year 12 and planning on applying for medicine. I have posted before about his struggles with workload doing 4 A levels and he has finally decided to drop further maths to focus on his ucat and work experience.

However, his sixth form is telling him he should be aiming for 4 and generally being unsupportive, although everything I have read suggests that everything else carries more weight than a fourth A level.

He volunteers twice a week and in the holidays, has a part time job and reads around the subject of medicine daily and something needs to give as he's getting quite stressed.

Is there anyone who can advise as to whether it is the right decision, as he is now doubting himself, thank you.

There are a lot of hoops to jump through in a med school application. If they think about all the hurdles together, it can feel a bit overwhelming at times. I think a healthy approach is to start out considering it as a two-year process as many don't get an offer first time round. That mindset takes a lot of the pressure off. Then I would say it is important to consider A levels to be the single most important thing throughout. Hitting your grades is non-negotiable and you can always reapply for Medicine with grades in hand but resitting A-levels is less straightforward. It is good to remember that even with four offers, if you don't get your grades, you won't be going to Medical school at the end of Year 13. With regard to ongoing volunteering/work experience/part time jobs, just enjoy it as something really different from school. The only thing to do here apart from keeping it going as much as is reasonable can be to keep a diary of some examples of difficult situations, observations or skills you have developed relevant to being a doctor. It doesn't have to be too involved, just some reminders that could be useful prompts when it comes to interviews later in the process. Aside from those two commitments, I would say just focus on each hurdle as it comes along - Year 12 exams, UCAT, UCAS application, mocks and then interviews. I agree with Haffdonga that it is really important to leave enough time to just chill with friends and be a normal teenager. I am a firm believer that brings balance and perspective to the whole thing and helps them through the process. Definitely that over extra academics, like a fourth A-level. Both of my DC took the approach I've just run through and both got 4 med school offers in Year 13. One final but hugely important thing - I can't stress highly enough how important it is to apply tactically. There is a lot of great advice on the applying for medicine threads on here and also some amazing volunteers on TSR who help students apply playing to their strengths and maximising their chances of interview. It can make the difference between getting zero or four interviews as all med schools select differently.

Just make sure he drops the right subject and keeps doing the ones that med schools want. (Dropping chemistry would close almost all doors to med school regardless how many others he's doing).

Definitely do three A Levels. DD is in Yr13 and has been doing four, and is just about to drop one to concentrate on the three. Medicine is such an involved application - volunteering, UCAT, BMAT, interviews, stress of waiting for offers - that it has been hard to just focus on A Levels. I wish she’d dropped the fourth earlier to make sure she gets the three A grades.

If he wants to do extra an EPQ is worthwhile as it was discussed in interviews and some unis (Exeter, Sheffield) allow a lower grade with an A in the EPQ.

I believe a lot are put off this approach by the fact that application is often a two-year process and they may have a gap year anyway if they don't get an offer in Year 13.

Do 3. And get the best grades. UCAT matters - EPQ good as lowers grades needed at some places. But do 3.

@opoponax 😊 beautifully put.

Three A levels are enough for medicine, especially if the fourth one is FM. Drop one subject and ask him to concentrate on volunteering, UCAT prep as well as having some downtime as the entire process of getting into medicine is brutal.

Thank you for all your replies and advice. He is sure he's doing the right thing for him now so fingers crossed he can just get his timetable changed without any more resistance.

If he’s unhappy then he needs to drop to achieve his best. Then it will be what it will be, but he will know he gave it his best shot. If it’s right for him it will work out.

Drop 4. Do epq in a relevant topic like genetics he can talk about or reference in med school interview . Do care work volunteering.

We encouraged DS (state 6th form) to drop his 4th A level at the end of year 12 (2022) but after a year of doing 4 subjects (Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology and Psychology) he felt he just couldn’t. He didn't have a part time job though (apart from dinner dishes which he was paid for).

I also tried to steer him away from medicine however, he was determined.

He achieved the A’s he needed and is coming to the end of his first year of his medical degree now and is loving it!

I did read that further Maths is one of the toughest A levels. Trusting your DS to do whats best for him is the right thing to do.

Good luck to your son. It is a hard slog but once he gets a place he will do fine. It is still loads of work and stress but it’s different because they have flown the nest and are happily working towards the goal they set themselves.

I'm glad you had good advice here.
It is a brutal process and that continues to get to F1 and again for core training. It's non stop!
My DS is a Dr and if I can help in any way please ask.
Best of luck to your DC

Drop the 4th A level. Focus on the UCAT

My son who is a Junior doctor dropped his 4th A level of further maths as he was told if you offer 4 they will want amazing results from all 4. He did an EPQ which he thoroughly enjoyed and had lots of volunteering in a care Home and at a school for deaf and blind children. he got 4 offers and 4 interviews. The 'extras' are worth such an enormous amount on any medicine application.

However, I really would talk him out of Medicine.

I wish I had had talked my son out of it. The NHS is dead on its feet and doctor's jobs are being taken over by Physician Associate roles that pay better initially. The government are determined to undermine doctors and this is going to get worse. We are ending up with a 2 tier system. My son is a doctor in training for anaesthetics and having done 5 ears at medical school, another intercalating now has another 8 years of training in front of him where he could be moved every 6 months within the deanery. How are thirty somethings supposed to make a family, buy a home when they have to be so nomadic? training opportunities are becoming less and less as they being given to those who are not qualified doctors.

Please get him to choose a different career!

I'm a medicine admissions tutor. I'd like to back up others' responses that (a) having a fourth A-Level isn't an advantage, and becomes a disadvantage if it leads to your dropping a grade in one of your other three, and (b) some medical schools won't accept maths and further maths as separate A-Level subjects.

Medical school academic entry requirements are summarised here and here.

Please note that there are 15 undergraduate medicine degree programmes that don't require A-Level chemistry. While doing biology and chemistry keeps the largest number of options open, chemistry is not always essential.

Don't do it my DS on sixth form advice was doing 5 to start with to 'stand out'.
He ended up doing 3 but with a lot of stress in the meantime.

Not sure why schools push kids to do a 4th A level when they are always better off focussing on getting 3 good grades for whatever comes next. Universities only care about 3. I’ve got a child in their 4th year (medicine) and she did 3, had 3 offers and was able to focus on everything others have said - interview prep, UCAT, extra currrics etc

Goodness, 5 is ridiculous, less than 5% take 4 A levels. The only person we know to do 5 went to MIT. Both my children did 4 because they needed further maths for their STEM degree courses.

Definitely drop an A level, medicine is not just on the A levels as has been mentioned. Acing the entrance exams plus the work experience etc is more important than a 4th A level.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne could you let me have your list of 15 Unis that don't require chemistry. I only found 9 !
Thanks - I sometimes have students who realise to become a psychiatrist they need to be a doctor first ! In year 12.

If the workload is too much absolutely drop it. There’s no need. There are things you really need to focus on for a Med application and a 4th A level is not one of them. My year 13 has received 4 offers. Do not underestimate the amount of prep required for interviews. Her interviews went from the end of November to the end of January, and 3 A levels and interview prep was plenty.

Can he drop the P/T job and volunteering for now? I'd say with such a tough vocational career, it's worth putting all his focus on academic work for the next couple of years. He can easily pick up seasonal work and volunteering again after his A levels are over. But he can't claw back time spent doing these things during his A level years.

3 A Levels and an EPQ in an area related to patient care, psychology or the NHS is the ideal combo.

What sort of work experience is it? I was told very clearly by the mother of a boy applying to do medicine that work experience meant nothing. Grades were everything. I'd heard the opposite - that relevant work such as carer in a residential home or hospital porter were looked on favourably. But shop work etc isn't. What does he do? It seems a shame to keep up a part time job but drop a 4th A level if it would help him in such a competitive field.

@AmaryllisChorus he'll need the skills from volunteering and that job to apply for medicine. Students who are successful at MMIs usually have worked with the public in some way. Grades are important, UCAT is important and being able to ace an interview is important. Need all 3.

Shop work is excellent. Anything customer facing. It gives you the skills. It's not about what you do.

As one admissions tutor put it, 'Id rather you'd worked in McDonalds than spent time with daddy who is a doctor'. Need patience, resilience, time management, ability to speak to strangers etc.