Dentistry. What if you don't get a place?

[axolotlfloof]

DS1 is interested in Dentistry.
He is doing the right A levels: Bio, Chem and Maths, and targeting A grades.
I have been told he should only apply to dentistry (4 choices) and not put another subject as back up, but only 10% of applications will get a place.
If he doesn't get any offers does that mean he has to wait for clearing?
It seems offputtingly competitive and a bit risky.
Anyone been there?
DS is not put off, and I admire his confidence, but he is probably not a A* student, and I can't imagine him in an interview!
I am being supportive, but is it unrealistic/risky?

Yes, it's competitive but he has to think that he is the competition.

It might bring some more peace to take the pressure off getting a place this year and regard it as a multi-year process. A lot of people take a gap year to re-apply. Lots do a different degree first then get in- the route I took myself.

Speaking as a dentist. With a medic dd, who applied twice!!
Who’s told him not to put a fifth choice in as back up? All the medics/ vets/ dentists do, they certainly don’t all get offers. They need a plan B.

The plan B can be to try an alternative degree but it can also be to re-apply and take a gap year and try again the following year. It's very common for medicine - I don't know if as common for dentistry. If the plan B is to re-apply then you don't need a 5th choice.

Thank you.
It was Dr friend who said Dental schools will think he is not committed to dentistry if he applies for other courses. Is this incorrect?

He is keen to go for it, but yes I have heard your chances improve on reapplication (a year older, better at interview etc).
He is young in the year (summer birthday) so he might benefit from this.

I applied many moons ago! But as far as I’m aware the unis don’t see the other applications. Schools also know that the success rate of an offer is low so a plan B is needed. Don’t forget you don’t have to fill in the fifth option until January!
Im happy to be corrected by those in the know though.

Thanks.
Yes I have heard reapplication can be more successful.
It is such a long course and with a first degree would be even longer, but it's a consideration.
What did you do as a first degree?

Thank you.
I didn't know this.

True, and there is a funding element to doing it second but it's very long-term so not something to fret over now.

If he goes down a different degree route it's important to do something he'll enjoy otherwise he won't be motivated.

There are huge advantages to doing another degree first- it means you go into the dental course with more life experience, skills and maturity which are important on a professional programme. I am very glad I went into the course a bit later as I don't think I had the overall academic/ personal maturity to succeed when I was 18-23.

I did essentially what would be considered Biomedical Sciences. Most graduates who do medicine or dentistry after do this.

Hi OP. I’m an academic dentist at my university and I do Dentistry admissions tutoring. Your friend is definitely incorrect - other universities won’t know he’s applied for other subject. PM and happy to answer any Qs xxx

I suspect your doctor friend went to uni pre-1992 under the old UCCA system when you filled in a paper form and (if I remember correctly) all unis saw all your five choices. It is likely your friend is assuming times have not changed; they have. As PP states, under the online UCAS a uni only sees you have applied to them; they do not see your other choices.

Definitely worth your DC looking at the UCAS website to understand how it works; this includes the fact, mentioned above, that your 5th non-dental choice does not have to be added in October 2024 when your four dental applications need to go in. The 5th can be added at any time up to late January 2025 and still be treated as equally as any application made before that time.

The '4+1 different' approach to Dentistry, Med and Vet applications does throw up issues about how to approach the personal statement on the UCAS application form. As far as I can tell, the advice is to focus on the target subject (ie Dentistry, Med or Vet) as Admissions Tutors at typical 5th choice 'plan B' courses (eg BioMed) understand what is going on and do not penalise - but do check with other sources. There are relevant threads from time to time here and on Student Room which may be of help.

May I just add. The Personal statement for the ‘fifth’ choice can be added separately as an email directly to the university involved. My second dd did this. She was applied to vet med, mid Jan had a complete change of heart, wanted to apply to a completely unrelated course, phoned the uni admissions directly, no problem, send a covering email with new PS. They offered within 24 hrs!

DS applied for Medicine and didn't put a fifth choice as he wouldn't have accepted the place anyway. He knew that he was unlikely to get in the first year and that it would might take two or more attempts.

My DD has applied for medicine for 2024 - she put a 5th choice - chemistry and got an offer without a new PS. Her reasoning was if she got no offers for medicine she would reapply with grades in hand however if she didn’t get the required 3 x A’s she had a back up. She currently has 3 offers for medicine and is waiting to hear about the 4th interview.

Well done to your DD Random. That's a fantastic result for your DD

Totally off the point I realise but I've often wondered why dentistry is such an attractive prospect for so many Uber bright young people. You spend the majority of your day scalping plaque from peoples smelly mouths. Surely it can't just be the money?

Thank you - she’s very happy but obviously still needs to get her grades! Hope your DS has offers too (if he’s applying this year!)

Actually he changed his mind which really surprised us as he's wanted to be a Doctor for so many years. He's now happily studying a completely different course. Hadn't seen that one coming but we're all very happy with the outcome.

That’s great he’s happy doing his course - I would never have encouraged medicine but my daughter has wanted to be a Dr for so long - it’s tough to get into like dentistry and vet med - then the course is hard too 🤷🏼‍♀️

Putting a 5th choice is useful if you need to go into clearing or adjustment. Need to reject all 5 before can do this.

Most courses will not even read the PS so won't need to do a separate one. Dentistry needs a good UCAT score.

Thanks for this. Great advice.

Just like all nurses do is wipe bums. There’s literally nothing else to the job.

A word of caution, it is even more competitive to do dentistry as a second degree.

If he is not likely to get grades then perhaps think about a degree in dental therapy . Much less stress all the way around , follows BDS course at first , only three years before practicing .

Hopefully he is ticking off all the other requirements re work experience, volunteering etc. particularly these days it can be very difficult to get the experience in general dental practice that is necessary.

Totally off the point I realise but I've often wondered why dentistry is such an attractive prospect for so many Uber bright young people. You spend the majority of your day scalping plaque from peoples smelly mouths. Surely it can't just be the money?

Well, that's not what dental surgery is, but you carry on believing it if you like.

When I speak to sixth-formers who want to do dentistry, their reasons are usually (a) the desire to develop skills that are useful to people, (b) the money and (c) not having to work in the NHS.

What about going in the Navy (or another one of the forces) as a dental officer cadet? https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/careers/roles/dental-officer-cadet