IB (UK) - was it the right choice for DC to get to Uni or did it make it more difficult

[2morasmum]

My DC'a school has only IB as an option and we always thought it was a good idea to keep the option of international universities open. However, we understand that more children are leaving the school to do A-levels than ever before.
I would like to ask parents of IB students to share their thoughts about the effect of applying to Uni coming from an Uk school school with IB.

I can assure you the maths is not 'simple', even if the student chooses SL maths.

It seems so obvious to me (and most people who truly understand the system!) that the IB is far more rigorous than A-levels, and that it is more difficult to get as high a score in the IB as an 'equivalent' (as unis see it) A-level score. I have a lot of experience in both systems, as a teacher, examiner and parent. As I've said before, I would advise anyone with the choice for their DC to opt for A-levels, and not IB, if they want to attend uni in the UK.

But of course you're entitled to your own opinion.

And it's NOT the same teaching by time for IB as for 3 A-levels - that's my point!! Far more teaching hours for the 6 IB subjects and then TOK which is 2-3 lessons extra.

The Maths pedagogy is different in IB and A level. IB SL Maths does not cover as many facts as A level, and IB HL does not cover as many facts as FM. But there is more emphasis on analytical, critical and creative thinking in IB Maths (at both levels). As I said upthread, our IB students slightly outperformed our A level students when formally compared a little while back, in spite of the fact that most of the latter had grade A (at least) at FM.

DD did IB and achieved the maximum score of 45 - including the devilishly difficult HL maths. She's now studying medicine at Oxford. It was the perfect challenge for her and she had no difficulty securing offers for medical schools.

What's been great about the IB is that, compared to many A Level students, she continued with essay subjects (English and History SL). As a result she has very good writing skills - the Oxford course requires multiple essays a week in the first 3 years. She also has good French, very conversational.

@SmallDaffodils can I please ask you opinion on A-level versus IB in terms of applying for a European Uni?

I did the IB back in 1993 at a state school. Unfortunately my son didn’t have this option and is doing A levels. I would have much preferred him to carry on with the breadth of the IB diploma.

One of the things I particularly appreciated is that the diploma had an international outlook. The extended essay was excellent prep for university.

My Russell Group offer was very low, which was just as well, as I completely failed one of the subsidiary subjects. It has never been an issue. Obviously I am older now so don’t mention it on my CV but when I was younger it was a talking point at interviews. They’d wonder, for example, how I went to university without A levels.

@HonorGold it would depend on the entry requirements of the individual unis in Europe BUT from my experience the requirements are generally lower - the unis accept more candidates but also more will leave (or be made to leave after low end-of-year exam results) at the end of the first year.
Students from my school have gone to various unis in France, Switzerland and the Netherlands - the IB score required is often as low as 28. It's a very different system from the UK.
So, in my opinion IB for entry into European unis is absolutely fine.
(Disclaimer - I'm not an expert - just going on my own experiences in the field of teaching A-levels in a British school and IB in a European one!)

That is an incredible achievement - congratulations to your DD!!

@HonorGold .. the answer is 'it depends'... some courses in the Netherlands require 3 sciences which is not possible under the IB rules (2 languages, one from individuals and societies, one science, maths and one other though technically I believe you can take 7 subjects, I do not know any schools which support it) so many students have to sit another exam to gain entry to medicine / engineering for example.

There are some restrictions in Switzerland too... and therefore possibly other countries.

Our IB school send students to many european universities, the Netherlands being particularly popular due to their being many courses offered in English.

My DD took the IB last year and started uni in Sept. Most of the unis she applied to had standard offers that seemed fair compared to A-level. For a social science at well-regarded RG unis her offers were mostly 36-38 IB compared to A*AA at A -level. She was offered 38 points from LSE for example. Several asked for 666 or 665 at higher level - some didn’t specify

The IB is very hard work, but as others have said the students have the advantage of starting uni with a broad skillset including Maths and English as well as really good organisational skills. My DD and her cohort have all found Y1 uni really easy compared to 6th form.

The IB is hard work but as pp mentioned you do learn to be very organised and disciplined and that probably makes year one at university easier. My ds took the IB, had offers from all five of his choices and achieved a 43. Dd chose A levels as she wanted to take maths and FM and the college only offered one type of IB maths course at HL and not the more challenging one - not sure which one this is as IB maths has changed since ds took HL 6 years ago.

I think it is more complex than just comparing total A level percentages to IB to get a difficulty comparison. The US remains the biggest market and most of their college offers are unconditional so their overall scores tend to be lower. The UK usually beats the international average by 3/4 points each year although you could argue with a self selecting / more able cohort.

I also think the bell curves of each individual subject is different too. For example MFL may be easier as native speakers are removed, subjects like business studies, film studies where top grades are capped at A level in order to achieve parity with more traditionally academic subjects are not so much at IB. Conversely maths which benefits from high levels of top grades at A level due to the strength of the candidates, does not appear to get the same benefit at IB.

I have a feeling British universities just don't have a clear idea of how heavy the IB workload gets and are not really making fair accommodation.

We are at a bilingual (semi-international) school in a non-English speaking country and the English part of the course is based on Cambridge International rather than IB, and I have to say I'm quite glad; IB just seems so hard.

I did IB then studied in Oxbridge. It is more difficult - but better rounded. e.g. CAS and lots of extracurricular activities important. I’d recommend it for this reason but depends on ability/interests and what you’d like to do afterwards.

Students/schools can apply to the IB to take a non-regular diploma if the uni course they need requires 3 sciences (medicine, veterinary here in NL). To do this they drop humanities, but start with 7 subjects until their request is approved.

That’s interesting PatienceofEngles dd Yr11 wants to study in NL but is interested in Maths/Finance/Accounting. She was really keen on the IB but is now having a bit of a wobble and considering a-levels thinking it might be easier just to take 3 subjects.

My older dc in Yr12 IB just had a talk at school about applying to European universities but I haven’t had a chance to ask her about it.

@Sourisblanche look carefully at admission requirements for individual universities. The standard entry to Dutch universities is an equivalent to the Dutch VWO school diploma. Dutch school diplomas are (like the IB) broad and must include core subjects like Maths, Dutch and English, a science with specific specialisations possible for additional subjects.

Just looking at Groningen University, for their Bachelor programmes it judges 3 A-levels at grades A*-C as equivalent to the VWO diploma. However, they have a list of A-levels they will not accept because they see them as too vocational or skill based (Accounting is one of them).

https://www.rug.nl/education/application-enrolment-tuition-fees/admission/procedures/application-informatie/with-non-dutch-diploma/entry-requirements/bachelor-entry-requirements/bachelorlinksinternational/gce-a2-levels-british-examination-board

With the IB for general admission/equivalency they do not exclude any subjects but there will be specific requirements per course, especially in any science/engineering/maths related course.

https://www.rug.nl/education/application-enrolment-tuition-fees/admission/procedures/application-informatie/with-non-dutch-diploma/entry-requirements/bachelor-entry-requirements/bachelorlinksinternational/international-baccalaureate-diploma

@PatienceOfEngels thank you for taking the time to share this info, it’s very useful. I think IB is the best option for her and it’s good to keep a language going alongside all the maths and economics.

I’m a little familiar with the situation in NL because my dh did VWO but that was quite a while ago!

I think many posters don’t realise that bright A level dc don’t just study. They take music exams, they might do drama, belong to school societies, have positions of responsibility in school, do sport and hone their skills for uni in all sorts of ways. Many parents who want IB are bright themselves. It’s not the IB that makes their dc bright. Being able to access the IB is a bit of a luxury. I’m guessing deprived areas don’t offer it. So it’s a self selecting group of mostly bright dc who do it but don’t assume other dc do nothing besides A levels. The best do and some even work!

I think many of your points are fair @TizerorFizz , and of course the IB isn't as widely accessible as A Levels. But my DD does the IB at a state sixth form college which has a catchment which includes some of the most deprived areas of the UK, so it's not universally true that is can't be accessed in less affluent areas.
The college also offers A Levels, so it really is a self-selecting cohort that do the IB. They are generally bright, self-motivated and keen to get involved - of course this is also true of the majority of A Level students.

Of course many A level students are heavily involved in other activities. However, for IB students such activities are mandatory: you cannot pass the IB without completing the CAS requirement.
I also live in an area where the state sixth form offers the IB.

I agree with @TizerorFizz . Someone said upthread what makes the IB superior is the essay writing and the voluntary work. Loads of A'level students do voluntary work during their studies. My DS did a social enterprise alongside his studies which he won an award, loads of A'level students also do an EPQ (the EPQ is also lauded as preparing students better for uni than those who didn't do it) no data to back that up.

I do agree however that it's broader in that it's mandatory to do a Language/s and the Maths element. I'm not convinced it prepares them better for uni or that they have better outcomes (in what way exactly it's not as if A'level students have never done more than 3 subjects before). I'd like to see the data/study that the poster upthread said they had done to shed more light on this.

We’ve only looked at state schools here, dd is in a IB state school. Younger dd has applied to a grammar for IB with a wide and varying catchment. All in local state up to gcse. Yes dh and I are both bright but we can’t help that

If we end up moving back to EU then dd will attend an international school for IB, these have a range of fees, some are government subsidised others not.

I don’t think parents can help being bright but no state school would run IB (it’s expensive!) in an area with low elite uni destinations. It’s never going to work. So as a result, a few elite or huge state schools offer it and then tell everyone else how much better their students are. No surprise there. A level students who inhabit the majority of schools can have excellent prep for uni as I outlined. I do respect the IB, and certainly its language provision, but I don’t like crowing about it being superior when so few have access to it. Maybe that’s why people think the uni grades are too high? Is it a levelling process?Out of interest: Is any IB school in a deprived area where DC are offered lower grades for uni entry?

@TizerorFizz , short answer to your question is Yes. As I mentioned, DD's college's cohort comes from some of the most deprived areas of the UK. Our postcode is POLAR 2. I think DD will qualify for contextual offers from a majority of universities