Can't decide between Maths or Journalism

[KingCatMeowInSpace]

DS is considering applying for courses in multimedia journalism as likes idea of presenting or social media type jobs but school think he should be applying for something more traditional at an RG uni as he always gets in the 90% in tests/exams in maths, physics, history,English. Not sure what to advise him - are the school right or does he apply for a more practical course at a non RG Uni? Any advice?

@KingCatMeowInSpace Does he have any interest in engineering? There are so many disciplines to look at that are useful to society. Always a degree that’s good for employment and often engineering grads go into jobs requiring numeracy, eg finance. You don’t need a degree in any aspect of finance, eg accountancy or actuarial science. Employers recruit mathematicians and others with maths skills and train them. There is a huge variety of roles for the numerate.

Most better known journalists have a first degree in another subject. You don’t have to live and breathe a uni subject - just be good enough to do it!

That’s the problem really- he’s very capable and doing great in all his subjects - maths, physics, history and English but not passionate about any of them - only genuinely passionate and engaged and excited when making vlogs and videos and thinking of what his next one will be and the best time to upload etc etc - he’ll do what the school/me advise re courses and is clever enough to pass but don’t see him enjoying the other subjects, just going along with them which isn’t ideal.

He should read about the course content of the various maths related degrees to try to get an idea of which way to go. Pure maths proving fundamental mathematics from first principles is very different to some of the more applied areas like actuarial science, and not everyone who is good at maths at school will enjoy pure maths. (coi DH and I both did a fair bit of pure maths in our degrees and DS has just started a maths degree, for all the right reasons)

Good luck to your son finding the right course that he will enjoy. I understand that at Scottish universities he is likely to be able to include some courses from outside his main field anyway, which could allow him to incorporate some business or journalism relevant stuff potentially?

It's not the course, it's the job afterwards. So many graduates get stuck because their degree doesn't fit with the employment they want.

@KingCatMeowInSpace how about maths an data science, for example: https://www.exeter.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/mathematics/mathsdatasciencebsc/

There are other combinations elsewhere, like Maths, Stats & Data Sci at Bath, or MORSE at Warwick (Maths, Operational Research, Statistics & Economics).

@KingCatMeowInSpace Eventually, to make money, you need to have something well researched and meaningful
to say. You have to get beyond the videos of youth and get paid for your output. Work out how you make money from doing what he enjoys or what’s going to pay the bills?

Nothing stops any student producing journalistic output at uni. Magazine for uni or subject/faculty blog, other outlets the uni has, or work experience. Being able to write well will matter in the end but getting yourself out there is possible whatever the degree. I would still say an academic degree is the best springboard. Then train for journalism if that’s what he wants. If not, so many opportunities are there. Often what you didn’t know about at 16.

Top universities don't teach multi media or journalism

Why do people come on here to post statements that are simply untrue? Is it out of a desire to mislead people, or to state what they wish was true rather than what actually is?

Top universities don't teach multi media or journalism

My Ds did his MA here.

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/about/rankings

I did a maths degree without doing FM at A Level and regret it. I loved A Level maths and hated my degree, I was out of my depth from the first lecture despite getting full marks on a couple of my A Level modules. I thankfully did joint honours with a language, and that’s the only reason I was able to get to a 2.1 (which is my worst academic grade to date - I’ve since done professional qualifications and got the highest marks on those papers a number of times).

I would make a different choice if I had to now, but I also get paid >£100k ten years after graduating so it’s not been the worst path in the end!

I think it's important to research the different Maths degree options. My son hated "Pure Maths" so always knew he didn't want to do a "Maths" degree although he loved the probability, statistics, mechanics and engineering side of it - he just couldn't "do with" the theory and proving aspects - he wanted it to be useful in practical terms! However, he wanted to use his Maths skills, so spent a lot of time researching options, researching different Unis, etc., and swayed between a joint degree, i.e. Maths with Physics or Maths with Economics, or a MORSE degree, or engineering, etc., and really hadn't a clue which direction to go in, other than he didn't want to do a single Maths degree. He discovered Financial Maths quite accidentally as it was just mentioned as a kind of after-thought at a Uni Open Day and it really caught his attention so he researched which Unis offered it and what module/subject options they offered. He never looked back as it was exactly what he wanted - it was the kind of Maths he found interesting and the "boring" theoretical bits (proving etc) were minimal enough for him to cope with. One of his flat mates did "Maths" on its own and was pretty miffed that he hadn't realised there was Financial Maths as he'd have done it in a flash if he'd known as he was also wanting to go into financial services so right up his street too! Son liked it because of all the "business" modules, such as economics, accounting, business finance, etc which his flat mate couldn't do which is why flat mate regretted his choice!

Great advice that I wish someone had given me! Although, I do/did like A Level pure maths, once it got to FM level and proofs etc I just didn’t get on with it. I knew I hated applied maths and avoided that - but it wasn’t until I got into my final year and could choose discrete maths and logic based modules that I started to enjoy any of the maths work I was doing. I didn’t have any family who’d been to uni and I didn’t understand that I could even look at modules and content before getting there.

Yes it's a huge help when you have access to people who know something about the courses you are considering. I remember having a conversation with DS, when he was starting to settle towards choosing maths (there were several options in the mix initially) "what is it you enjoy about maths?" that reassured me that all the things he wanted to do more of pointed towards pure maths. If it had been otherwise I would have been strongly encouraging him to research courses in a bit more depth.

Would Economics be a slightly more flexible option than Maths, and better if he might want to go into data journalism?

yes agree. I have already flagged a journalism course at Sheffield. Pretty sure that is on most people's list of top universities?

There are options within some maths degrees to do modules closer to business needs. There are also management degrees at many excellent universities. Bath springs to mind. Engineering is also broader use of some elements of maths.

Journalism MAs can be done after any degree. Maths and engineering or management grad jobs are not really possible after a journalism degree (maybe management?) but keeping doors open makes sense.

@clary Also only requires ABB. So not overly competitive. I’d still do something else and do a masters though!

maths and politics sounds really good, and potentially extremely useful and interesting - so many people don't understand stats or risk in a political context. he could go into politics/policy but also into anti-politics in terms of revealing the nonsense behind some soundbites. Get him to listen to a few episodes of radio 4's more or less and see if it piques his interest.

It's actually hard to gain a place on lots of media and journalism courses -portfolios and interviews are still common.

Sheffield is a renowned course. Other RG universities also offer journalism and multimedia (Birmingham, Newcastle, Leeds...).

Grades don't speak the whole story - what is 'competitive' is dictated by what society places emphasis on. When I went to uni , high grades were required for English courses and peanuts for a lot of maths degrees because, back then, they were undesirable- as one example.

As I said upthread - the Guardian sportswriter we know went to Bournemouth (the horror!) but also had a shit tonne of accrued work experience. Some of this came about because of the opportunities afforded by the course. His A level grades were well in excess of the requirements.

I mean I agree that the op’s son is better to do a stem degree first.

But Sheffield is on the RG list so the post saying no top unis offer journalism was odd.

Also...

UCL
Warwick
Lancaster
Loughborough
Surrey
York

and on and on

ps I know three of those aren't RG.

I’m a former trained and qualified (and award winning) journalist but I’m now in PR because journalism is poorly paid, unsociable and not very flexible, and has changed beyond recognition where you are mainly writing clickbait and competing with people who get their ‘information’ from social media and wrongly think that journalists and mainstream media can’t be trusted.

However, it is a great career if he’s very passionate about it and flexible and committed then he can do very well.

I agree that it’s best to ensure a full rounded set of skills (even now in PR it’s about my writing skills but also my digital skills) and that journalism can be done post grad.

In response to pp I did the best journalism degree in the country (as was then) and it’s stood me in good stead for interviews. You ultimately do have to have qualifications to be any kind of journalist. They don’t just trust any Tom, dick or Harry sit through and appropriately report on legal proceedings for example.

I was about to post similar. My DS did multimedia journalism at Bournemouth. It's v well regarded in the industry and he's done very well for himself. Had a good job with a national media organisation before he'd even finished his course.

This statement is untrue. It's also a good example of the utter snobbery you find on MN around choice of academic subjects plus the obsession with RG universities. It's really tiresome.

My friends son did media studies at Newcastle. He’s a camera man now.

We live in a multi media world. Theres loads of job opportunities in media.

@Piggywaspushed I think your view of what’s competitive and what isn’t overly competitive is a bit skewed. MFL courses are often ABB. This is because few students take the subjects required. This means unis want to attract students and ask for lower grades. Ditto for journalism. If it needed to filter out many highly qualified apllicants, it would be AAA, but it doesn’t. Also there’s nothing wrong with a course asking for slightly lower grades but let’s not pretend it’s PPE at Oxford!

Years ago I remember engineering degrees could be accessed with EE. You basically had to breathe. This was because fewer dc had the higher grades and were all swept up by the higher ranked unis. If they had asked for even CCC back then, the courses would be empty. Not so English because it was a course favoured by many until the employment stats were not as good as other options and boys didn’t want to do it. However a competitive course with many many highly qualified applicants (all with AAA) won’t be ABB. That doesn’t mean it’s a walkover but it’s hardly vet science or computer studies. It’s an alternative to media studies, film studies, creative writing and English but has a stronger vocational link.