Can't decide between Maths or Journalism

[KingCatMeowInSpace]

DS is considering applying for courses in multimedia journalism as likes idea of presenting or social media type jobs but school think he should be applying for something more traditional at an RG uni as he always gets in the 90% in tests/exams in maths, physics, history,English. Not sure what to advise him - are the school right or does he apply for a more practical course at a non RG Uni? Any advice?

I've spoken to him about the low pay in journalism and that his close friends are doing more engineering/maths type courses and the better pay/job prospects but he said as long as the pay is average he'd be ok with that as long as enjoys his job even if friends earn more! He's one more year of school (in Scotland) and plans on doing advanced highers in maths and history and still considering what else. Yes shall get him to look into more traditional degrees I think based on what you're all mainly saying and can then consider post grad in journalism if wants to afterwards. He does regular vlogs on YouTube and has had a few articles published in online magazine.

The pay isn’t average - it’s minimum wage. If you start on a local paper you’re looking at between 14-18k per year. And you’re expected to work way more hours than you’re paid for a lot of the time. National paper wages start at 22-24k, if you’re lucky enough to get on one of their programmes.

One option in-between would be an Economics degree and become an Economist. Many roles involve writing press releases, giving press interviews, giving speeches, writing reports and articles, some TV work. Though very competitive to get degree places and helps to have FM as well as Maths, less so for joint courses.

he said as long as the pay is average he'd be ok with that as long as enjoys his job even if friends earn more!

The pay is mainly minimum wage. With increasing cost of living, it is increasingly impossible to make a living as a journalist.

An Advanced Higher in Maths is the top Scottish Maths qualification and is accepted by a number of strong RG Schools of Maths throughout the UK.

It is a nice problem, OP. I am in STEM, hence biased. But I agree with the prevailing wisdom that a STEM, Economics or Business UG degree followed by a Journalism qualification is the best bet for your DS. Being able to write about numerate subjects well will be a special strength. Once he has his foot in the door he can branch out.

Yeh it depends on what he means by average pay tbh.

That £32k role I mentioned is for someone with at least five years + experience. And the contact flagging it talked up the pay as if it was good - which it kind of is - for journalism.

So often on MN I read posts like "I am paid an average salary of £50-60k and blah blah" and I am like ??? is that average? Maybe it is but then comms/PR/journalism is deffo very badly paid.

Apols btw OP - I made the foolish error of assuming England and A levels; if a Advanced Higher in maths is a top qualification then a maths degree is certainly open to him and would be a good plan.

Unless he's really passionate about a particular subject, I'd be inclined to consider a more "traditional vocational" type option as an alternative to a pure subject degree- i.e. engineering degrees are very mathematical but are more varied as they'll also include materials sciences and management type stuff which would widen the interest out a bit. Or even a mix of subjects (history and maths could lead nicely into politics and economics type subject options?).

Very much anecdotal but I've known a few people who have struggled with a "pure" subject degree and ended up switching (or losing interest and not doing brilliantly well) where it was just too much.

presenting or social media type jobs
PPs are talking about traditional ‘writing’ journalism whilst your DS is aiming for social media. Obviously some do earn very well doing the latter or using multimedia in business. Could he discuss with you the content of mulitimedia degrees that he is particularly keen on acquiring to progress his aims? There may be suitable online courses he could do together with a traditional degree?

Might he be interested in financial journalism OP? There's more money in that.

But he doesn't have to be a journalist if he does a multimedia journalism degree. PR is a common route but it also acts like any other humanities style degree - lots of options.

This could be a great option, OP. One of my relatives was a Chief Economist of a leading bank and part of his position was frequent media commentary and communication. Another of my relatives is a journalist focusing more on politics.

I also have a Communications degree and have used it in a professional capacity: I am a corporate comms lead. It did suit me well. I feel, however, that a generalist Arts/STEM degree might the OP's DS better.

Agreed. The pay is most definitely now average for someone with a degree. It’s actively bad.

I would suggest a STEM degree, and doing evening college classes and volunteering to get journalism knowledge/experience. He should start TikToking and/or a YouTube podcast.

Otherwise he’s about to get himself indebted to the tune of £27,000 minimum for an unnecessary and not that useful degree.

He might possibly get to be a reporter, but it’s not that likely, so he also needs to think what other careers/jobs it might lead to. How does he feel about ending up in Advertising?

Journalism sounds like a fun job when you are young but the reality of it is that most jobs in journalism are pretty awful. Not all obviously but many. Pay tends to be poor, conditions are not good and it's so so boring! Many who start get out and do something else.
If he's determined to do it then of course he should but he should get the best traditional degree he can first and then do a post grad or hopefully he'll have come to his sense by then!

Lots of great options here, OP. I had not fully taken on board the point that your DS is primarily interested in nontraditional media, but I would think think that having technical expertise of some kind would still be very beneficial. The Comms roles PPs are discussing might also appeal?

Yes lots to consider- thanks everyone. It's definitely not the traditional journalist role he wants-it's more a role involving lots of different short projects/tasks like interviewing people/researching them/their stories/making and editing short videos, presenting- that kind of thing.

Does he mean a comms role or broadcast journalism?

Rubbish. Several Unis towards the top of the league table for Maths accept students without FM at A level including Leeds, York, Lancaster, Loughborough and Newcastle.

My son didn't do FM (even though his school offered it) and he was accepted into Lancaster (was in top 10 for Maths and not even a RG Uni!) and got offers for Maths degrees from Leeds, York, Loughborough and Newcastle, all of which rank relatively highly. He had three A* in Maths, Physics and Economics! He got a First in Maths and is now working at one of the UK's largest insurance firms. Did him no harm at all!!

Not having FM limited him to which Unis he could apply for, as he didn't want to do the "entrance tests" either, but in the end, he had plenty of choice and got offers from all he applied to!

Obviously, if you want to study Maths at Cambridge, Oxford, StAndrews, Durham etc then you'd need FM, but there are plenty of high ranking Unis that don't require it!

I'd agree with most other posters and say he should progress with a STEM degree which will give him far more options and far greater chance of a more lucrative job/profession. He can use his STEM skills to do specialist journalism or he could even do journalism on a part time or hobby basis alongside a STEM related career or profession which would enable him to use his journalistic talent for something that really interests him rather than just generic reporting on multiple different topics.

There should be plenty of opportunities to "do journalism" alongside a trad degree at university. I'm a journalist, and I did an English degree, but I also wrote for the university and college newspapers, and did some music reviews for a local magazine. That was ages ago of course, but I'm sure universities still have student-run news outlets whether that is online or whatever.

That sounds like traditional journalism - maybe he's confused between print/online/broadcast?
For example, a BBC Online role would involve all of those - if you look at someone like Pallab Ghosh or Rebecca Morelle they will have short videos with stories online as well as being on the news and as well as writing longer stories for the website.

I work in the media, and while a couple of colleagues have journalism degrees, the vast majority have more traditional degrees, from computer science to English, from “good” universities, many Oxford and Cambridge. Most have a master’s degree too, or a PhD. I’d say he should go for maths, or something related. A specialism is always an advantage, especially in something STEM. It’s also worth considering the apprenticeship route. The BBC offers 250 apprenticeships, for example.

I have worked in media for most of my 20+ years and I have a degree in journalism. It worked for me....

... BUT I'd 100% tell him to go to a RG university and do something like maths/engineering/science/business/economics.

Because 1. in this country, media is still very much dominated by people from the right educational background (and yes, that's often true for non traditional media too) so this is a good networking opportunity, experience etc and 2. becoming a journalist with another degree is a lot easier than doing something different if you have a media/journalism degree.

Also, 3. having a more traditional subject in which you are knowledgable can really help as a journalist. From both a thinking/research skill perspective but also in terms of specialising. eg, if he does a degree in engineering, he could focus on this as his sector specialism as a journalist.

Yes 'drspouse' it would definitely be something like the bbc online role that he would want to be doing

I recently saw an article with a disclaimer at the bottom saying it had been written by AI and later checked over by a staff writer. So maths could actually end up being more useful for producing some articles than writing skills. (It was for OK magazine by the way, one of those ones that pops up on your phone….)

Journalism has an uncertain future. If he did decide to pursue it, having a specialism and insight into a specific area will be a huge huge advantage to him – so a degree in a STEM subject such as maths or a science would hold him in good stead while keeping many other doors open to him. Whatever he does, he can quite easily do a journalism course after uni as an add on.

The best thing he can do in the meantime is probably to get some volunteer or work experience during his degree working with a media outlet, whether that’s the student newspaper, local news, a niche publication, summer internship, etc. He can also try pitching different publications on a freelance basis (they will have guidelines on how to do this). If he has an interest, he could also try looking at joint honours degrees with languages or sandwich courses that offer a year in industry – both offer the opportunity to gain solid work experience during his degree. Again, this will provide him with a massive advantage as a graduate, along with an amazing opportunity to gain skills, mentorship and contacts while still being looked after by the university.

Anyway, sounds like he has lots of opportunities and exciting times ahead of him!

My brother and my SIL were both journalists.

My brother did history at York and spent a lot of time at the student radio station learning how to use the tech and honing his skills.

He then did a post grad in radio journalism at uclan and worked for the bbc in various roles.

My Sil did English and worked with Sky on tv news.

They are both now in PR and very well paid.

Look at the uni. Try to find one that has a radio station or a tv station where he can get experience. Try to find some people already in journalism who can advise.

Making contacts is the most important thing.

Yes I agree, interviewing people and researching their stories is literally what traditional journalism is. To get it out there digitally rather than on the inky pages of an actual newspaper is merely what happens more and more now anyway.

So I am not sure there s much difference; content creators are needed but everyone’s comments about challenges to get a role and the low pay are still valid. It’s great that he already vlogs and does other stuff. He should keep that up.

A lot of people here I agree are talking about getting a reporting role on a local newspaper – I mean there are such roles but they are fewer these days, and often remote which must be a nightmare. I learned so much from the old subbing team at my first newspaper.

I don’t agree that it’s so so boring tho. Certs I have done and am aware of a lot of jobs that are more dull. That’s maybe why some of them pay more!

That’s interesting about not needing FM @user1497207191 – well done to your DS. I would say tho (mind you sounds like this is irrelevant to OP’s son in Scotland, but for anyone else reading the thread) that FM is surely a good idea for a maths degree – and why wouldn’t you take it if you love maths? I took special paper in German bc I loved it. DD would happily have taken “further English lit” (no such thing sadly) instead of one of her other A levels. Anyway, while it is clearly possible to get to a good uni to read maths without FM, I do wonder how many students at the unis that don’t specify it (bc they can’t really as it might not have been an option) actually do have FM? Would be interesting to check.

@clary

FM is surely a good idea for a maths degree – and why wouldn’t you take it if you love maths?

In my son's case it was because his school only allowed pupils to take 3 A levels, so if you took Maths and FM, you could only do 1 other. He didn't want to be so limited as he wasn't fixed on doing a Maths degree when he was 16 and wanted to remain flexible, so he had to sacrifice FM to take 2 other subjects. If they'd have facilitated FM to be done as a 4th subject like lots (most) other schools do, he'd have done it!

I think that's why many good Unis are flexible about FM - some are happy if the applicant has A* in Maths and at least an A in, say, Physics. They can't impose FM when so many schools don't offer it at all, and when some schools place restrictions/limitations on FM.