Oxbridge 2025

[SnowFairy2000]

Let's start the journey here !!!

DD is year 3 Maths at Cambridge. can see there are a few questions coming up re this.

@Britneyfan DD ruled out Trinity for reasons connected to what you describe - so partly risk of not getting in, but also concern re experience if she did get in as rightly or wrongly she'd heard that focus was put on the best in the cohort and it's a large competitive cohort. It was covid so she couldn't really visit - we just went to the town in summer 2020, but she drew up a list of things she was looking for (eg wanted central, good sports, teaching was in college, room in college for first 3 years at least). She read up a lot and looked at all the college maths data re admissions. She got into the college she applied to, but also liked Caius though another student from her school was applying she was told to look for another). I liked Christ as it had a swimming pool but she ignored me and has since told me Christ is v pressured. so i was right to be ignored but it is a nice outdoor pool!

@Poob what has your DD decided to do? Please do let me know if there are any questions you or your DD has that my DD can answer. DD is involved with her college initiatives to increase no of girls /diversity of those studying maths.

For those applying for Cambridge maths, i understand they interview widely, and the maths interviews are rigorous. there wasn't more than a hello in either of them, they try to get you through as many questions as possible. Just be prepared for not even a how are you, nothing at all on PS and nothing except maths. 2 interviews each with 2 people at her college at least.

To prep for the interviews, DD did past papers, Olympiad qus and also went to the MAT lessons her school ran (even though was not sitting maths). As those applying will know the offer includes A levels plus STEP and the standard offer is 1, 1. The STEP exams are in the middle but towards the end of the A level exams. as others have mentioned 50% or so won't make their offer. It's gruel

Argh pressed send.

It's gruelling and they need to be organised and on top of their A levels in order to manage the STEP prep. @Pallando has posted above re the resources and the course they run which is definitely to be recommended.

Best of luck to all your DC 🤩

Thanks to everyone for their input, just seeing these messages this morning, I ultimately kind of crashed with the stress of it all last night (I am totally ridiculous I know but have quite a few other current stresses going on too, and it all just feels a bit overwhelming right now!) I’m so grateful for everyone’s input and insights amid my mini-meltdown 🤣

@HewasH2O you asked about his PGs, sorry I don’t know what that means? His GCSEs were all over the place, he did get a 9 in Maths and a 7 in Further Maths GCSE, and 7s in sciences but other than that his humanities type scores because of poor working memory with his ADHD were not at all good! Like to the point I know if they are judging on GCSE scores we have no chance anyway and to be honest I was not thinking at all of Oxbridge. But at this Open Day which my mum wanted him to attend, they were very encouraging and said they really only cared about predicted A level grade of A star in maths (which he does have), and maths ability at interview and STEP, so we are giving it a bash!

@Thekatzenjammerkid interesting food for thought about St Johns, thank you as that was one of the colleges we were thinking of putting down instead. I know these days they say they aren’t biased against state schools etc. (actually I think they always claimed that), but you do worry (I think it may have played a role back in the day for me but I also wasn’t well enough prepared by my school for the interview in hindsight). I do think a big part of it probably is that private schools are just much more familiar with the whole process and prep their students better for it the whole way along. And also the admirable confidence levels of many privately educated children compared with state, probably helps.

@Rhinoc thank you so much, it’s super helpful to know that’s the consensus and not just me being paranoid based on a couple of comments on social media and overreacting. It certainly makes logical sense. And @PhotoDad yes I saw that chart. Super recently hence they last minute panic. I just clearly don’t move in the right sort of circles to know that this is the consensus! @PhotoDad when you say lighthearted is this not a serious suggestion? It looks pretty nice!

@alexisccd thanks so much for this helpful info, which college is your DD in then if you don’t mind saying? An outdoor swimming pool would definitely be a huge draw if it was me 🤣 But although my son would like that I’m not sure it would be a dealbreaker for him! And yes thanks to the Open Day I do understand about STEP and how hard it is though hadn’t realised the cut was quite that brutal for STEP post offer which is also useful info. Thank goodness for mumsnet 🤣 In terms of diversity stuff my son is mixed race black/white if that makes any difference to anything.

Good luck navigating everything, @Britneyfan! (PG = Predicted Grades).

I only said 'lighthearted' about Robinson because it is almost entirely built out of red bricks. I know almost nothing about it as a college! I visited Cambridge with my DS to look at a few colleges and the architecture of Robinson is... very unusual. One enormous modern building, rather than spread out between different places, then dropped into the grounds of a manor house.

@Britneyfan - your ds race and school background will honestly make no difference! But they won’t make allowances for ADHD as a lot of other students will have similar conditions and tbh I’m not sure 7s in FM and sciences would help you make the cut for interview. I’d say give it a go but not Trinity for pooling reasons and don’t invest too many expectations into the process (this is true for EVERYONE even those with straight 9s and a bunch of prizes). Robinson is a fab college, I went to C and another college but all my friends were there … Good luck to your ds!

@PhotoDad thank you so much for your good wishes, ah ok predicted grades doh! His predicted grades are A star for maths, A for further maths, A for physics, B for business (yeah argh!!). Yes I agree it looks unusual but still quite nice! I feel like all the colleges look pretty nice anyway. We aren’t too hung up on exact choice.

@alexisccd I meant to say thanks for info about the interview too, that’s pretty much what I’d understood but I have such awful memories of my own disastrous interview there it haunts me! Sorry I know I am going on about this a bit, I apparently have a sudden need to process the trauma of it all some decades later!…

I still remember being asked “as a biologist (I took A level biology as one of my subjects and was applying for deferred entry for medicine), what are you going to be looking for in Indonesia on your gap year?” I was like “———- 🧐😬🤪🤯” (what are they even talking about, I am dropping biology like a hot cake to do medicine and wouldn’t call myself a biologist, also on my gap year I am going there to teach English and enjoy myself and not think about academic stuff for a bit before a long medicine degree!! But that’s probably not the answer they are looking for here hmmmmm I mean I’m not exactly Darwin going to discover new species or anything!) And then they asked me something about logarithms and microbial population expansion which on my syllabus (not English) we hadn’t even covered yet - it would have been a dead easy question later in my course though. They actually asked me loads about biology and animals etc. from memory and hardly anything about anything connected with medicine! It was pretty bamboozling. And very intimidating.

Anyway, for maths I’m actually really glad there is no chitchat or personal statement dissection for maths and it’s just straight into tricky maths problem solving, that’s fine, he’ll either manage it or he won’t and that’s ok! I feel like at least he has a relatively fair shot to demonstrate his maths ability and potential then.

My son is an Oxford History graduate and until recently I was Oxbridge UCAS advisor at a large Sixth Form College. My advice re Oxford is to choose the college very carefully. Do lots of research and look at acceptance rates for the relevant subject at possible colleges. There is less competition at some colleges than at others. People who are unfamiliar with Oxford sometimes don’t realise that you apply to a college and depending on subject, your application may be considered initially by that college not by the university-wide department as a whole.

@periodiclabel yes I do know they won’t take the ADHD into account, but I am just explaining here for people that I’m not completely deluded putting him forward for Oxbridge when he won’t be able to handle it anyway!

I think for maths specifically he would be ok if he can get in. His GCSE grades are more of a reflection of effects of the pandemic and his ADHD being not properly supported by his school plus lack of medication (unfortunately he is still unmedicated as on a long NHS waiting list for cardiac checks before they can consider it for him due to a tricky family history potentially making it just too risky for him). But I understand that they aren’t going to care about that. Anyway. We are giving it a go based on his predicted A level grades which as you can see also aren’t perfect but he does have what they said they are primarily looking for which is the predicted A star in maths. But for sure if they are making cuts on GCSE grades he has no chance! And even with predicted A levels he still might not quite make the cut. And that’s ok. It’s just one slot on the UCAS form right now. I wasn’t even all that keen on letting him apply there because I know the whole process is potentially extra stress for nothing for both him and me, but my mum wanted him to at least consider it and he wanted to as well after going to the Open Day. Like I say my son is a very chilled out sort of person and will be totally fine whatever happens.

In some ways as I said it’s at least nice and clear and not too long and drawn out if he falls at the first hurdle. I totally agree with not putting too many expectations into the process having been through it myself without getting a place back in the day. To be fair I ultimately had an absolutely AMAZING time on my gap year and then at my RG uni, had an absolute blast at Uni, made loads of lifelong friends, had a nice boyfriend or two, partied A LOT 🤣 and also ended up doing very well there academically and winning all sorts of prizes and bursaries there, as I was basically top dog there. So it worked out well for me to be an Oxbridge reject in some ways! If you’d asked me a year or two afterwards or even 5-6 years afterwards I would have said it didn’t matter a jot. But amid a perimenopausal hormonal midlife crisis it’s hard not to look back and wonder sometimes.

@periodiclabel anyway thanks for your good wishes! And we shall see what happens I guess. But it sounds like people think going for Trinity would be a madness and I think I am now convinced of that too.

The Oxford Uni website would indicate the opposite of this - that decisions are made at department level.

For my DD's intended course at Oxford, she was told (by a subject tutor at a college we visited) that all candidates are ranked and then the top ones are given a place. If 10 of those in the top slice have all applied to the same college at which there are only 5 places the remaining 5 are reallocated. So for her at least the college she has applied to amounts to expressing a preference rather than impacting her chances.

This is not the case. It is true that admissions decisions at undergraduate level are made by the colleges but there is a lot of reallocation and second interviewing to even up the odds and make sure no one is disadvantaged by which college they apply to. Around 25% of successful candidates get an offer from a college they didn’t apply to. Each subject handles reallocation slightly differently but all of them will have a method for doing it.
Therefore, apply to the college you fancy and it should not affect your chances of getting an offer from a college.

@Britneyfan Cambridge maths are quite clear (and our experience backs this up) that they don't care much about GCSE grades. When I asked at the open day they said they might raise an eyebrow if the candidate hadn't got a 9 in maths but they don't care about the rest, my DS certainly didn't get all top grades (dyslexic - spiky profile) but he started a week ago and is enjoying it so far. He decided not to apply to Trinity as he felt it was too big so he is now at a smaller college which seems to be suiting him. He also felt there was a good chance even if he did well at an interview at Trinity they would put him in the winter pool and he would end up at a different college.

They do want Astars in both Maths and Further Maths and the standard offer is Astar, Astar, A and 1,1 in STEP. The STEP exams are very hard and need a lot of preparation. Cambridge mark the STEP papers and set the grade boundaries such that only half the offer holders get in.

@Britneyfan I'm going to try to DM you with the name of DD's college

On a much more lighthearted note, we had about 5 attempts today before nailing DS's photo to upload to "MyCambridge" (formerly known as the SAQ). Plain (untextured) background with no shadows, no spectacles, not smiling. I barely recognised my lad as he has big glasses and is always smiling!

I had a student, years and years ago, who was given an offer of 4 A-stars and 2 STEP grade 1s, for NatSci at Trinity. (This would not happen today.) He replied by sending them a mildly rude email, and firming Imperial instead. The school was mortified, but I thought "Good for him!"

Tahanks alexis cd after a panicky attempt to get admission sorted, complicated because they realised they wanted to do physics not maths, we realised to do physics they had to have signed up for a test that they’d take on Monday, that we’d missed the deadline for.
i sat them down to mention it in my best serious mum voice..and he said,’oh that’s ok, I only put Cambridge down as a back up’ 😂

Sorry, the above sounds flippant! It just made me laugh as I can’t imagine anyone ever saying Cambridge is a back up!
I think sthe challenge is they wanted to do maths at Cambridge but physics somewhere else and we’re concerned their UCAS form would be slanted to maths, and then they’d muck up physics opportunities elsewhere. Also I didn’t realize you have to sign up for ESAT to do physics at Cambridge, and we missed the deadline.
im a bit upset in a way, as I feel I’ve let DD down by my own ignorance and that schools in better areas would have dedicated teachers, lessons, other people applying etc. but I am proud of DD for aiming high.
maybe she can apply next year?
thanks for the help.
can anyone help me understand the difference between physics and maths? In terms of opportunities etc. she just enjoys everything.

@Poob You're absolutely right that some schools provide a lot more support than others. Registration for the ESAT closed a while ago, unfortunately. Where is your DD applying for physics? Cambridge isn't the only good uni out there! Lots of people go to Oxbridge every year for masters or doctorates who weren't there for undergraduate courses, too.

Both Maths and Physics can lead to jobs in the City, accountancy, etc. The extra maths which mathematicians study, over and above what physicists do, is very niche and has very few real-world applications. But high numbers of graduates in both fields carry on to further study and end up in academic careers (or teaching) or in STEM industries. There are very many pros and cons to those paths, but you could say that about any job!

The two courses can look pretty similar depending on options chosen. There's a department at Cambridge called "Applied Maths and Theoretical Physics" because there's so much overlap! But mathematicians can choose to go into very abstract theories, and physicists can be much more hands-on practical (overlapping a bit with engineers), if they so decide.

https://xkcd.com/435/

So are they still applying for maths at Cambridge and physics elsewhere? Their PS can slant towards physics, then there is a supplementary form they can complete for Cambridge which reinforces why Cambridge maths. This is because many have to apply for Cambridge specific courses which don't match their applications elsewhere.

Your DC definitely isn't the only one who applies without years of Oxbridge support behind them. They can be just as successful as others by following the plentiful advice on the Oxford & Cambridge websites.

A friend's DD turned down her place at Oxford 2 years ago, choosing a course at Surrey instead. Nobody forces you to go if you decide it's not for you at the offer holder stage.

@Britneyfan - in case helpful, depending on where DC's interest sits as between maths and physics - DD applied for Maths at Cambridge (which includes theoretical physics), and Maths and Physics or Maths and Theoretical Physics elsewhere. Her PS explained her particular interest was in theoretical physics and she got offers from the others so I think it's possible to manage an application covering that kind of combination.

In case helpful, the other unis she applied to were St Andrews (i think this was maths and theoretical physics), Manchester, Durham and Warwick. She ruled out Imperial as we live in London, and also at UG stage wanted to be in a university /college where a broad range of subjects were studied.

Is anyone familiar as to whether it’s worth mentioning extenuating circumstances to Cambridge? DD’s school has been a bit shit this week and have not done this in their reference. We have only just found out that there is another form that can be completed (and not from school). She wants to study psych at Cambridge.

Quick outline, in y9 - start of covid. She became anorexic. V shit CAMHS support, ended up in tier 4 with very poor mental health. It was a horrible time for all. Dramatic suicide attempt and SH. A late diagnosis of autism. We probably find a way to briefly mention this but the upshot was that she missed almost all of year 10. She went back to school in y11 - by no means easy for all of us. Did her GCSE in one year and came out with seven nines, a couple of 8 and a 6 (one mark of a 7). She moved school for sixth form - has always attended state. Predicted three a* though may be a challenge to get this in maths. Also doing a fourth subject and an EPQ - predicted As.

Is it worth mentioning this on the extenuating circumstances form?

The maths tripos at Cambridge includes a lot of physics options (one of the departments is DAMTP - department of applied maths and theoretical physics), so actually applying for maths at Cambridge and physics elsewhere is not weird.

The "maths with physics" option replaces a pure maths course with some practical physics time, but if you are interested in theoretical physics then straight maths is fine!

It is always worth mentioning anything which might have had an impact!

@imip What an awful few years for you all. Yes, do mention it. Cambridge will email a link to the extra form (so make sure email gets regularly checked).