Oxbridge 2024 Entry Part 4

[Lightsabre]

New thread as our dc start the rollercoaster ride of interviews.

Is anyone out there still waiting to hear from O for Maths? DS’s friends have all heard back from their various colleges and courses but not him!

@Revengeofthepangolins in my DD’s case, it was because the admissions data that they sent to her to explain the context for their decision didn’t actually do that, when compared to her individual scores. It just told her she should have achieved an interview. It’s possible from the data they provide to work out the algorithm they use and it was clear there was error in the BMAT part of the calculation - the 25% weighting for the number of GCSEs and 25% weighting for 9/8 GCSE distribution doesn’t require any calculation, just the 50% for a weighted BMAT score. The error was in how they used the score for section 3 (or so they’ve said in follow-up emails). My DD still hasn’t received an interview but she’s very much ok with that, and others have, so she’s very pleased to have spoken up.

@SymmetricalSpinnaker sorry forgot to tag you into my post above - details are all there!

In response to the Q about prepping for admissions tests a year in advance, I think the answer is no.
My understanding is that students who do well are those who are naturally v good at the subject and who already have the skills because they engage with the subject outside of curriculums and tests. So they already read, do stuff which is connected to the subject. Once yr12 is ending and predicted grades known, or at start of yr13, looking at the admissions tests and familiarising with what’s looked at and some practice of old papers alongside continued excellence at school and continued wider engagement is enough. The tests aren’t meant to see who can slog and cram for a year and do well through sheer hard work. They used to be called aptitude tests. So although they can and should be prepped for, aptitude does come into it.

I’d think it’s the same for interbiew. You don’t prep for months on end in terms of doing practice interviews. But you do engage with your subject and show intellectual curiosity and in the final weeks, look at what interviews involve and do some practice so you can showcase how you think.

I might be totally wrong ....but that’s the impression I’ve got.

Thanks for new thread @Lightsabre.

DD’s interview is in person on Thursday. She has had one mock interview that went well. I’m not sure how much prep is going on tbh. She has both English and History coursework due in in the next week so has a fair bit on her plate. I think she will give herself Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday evenings to concentrate on preparing for the interview. I think she still has the attitude that she doesn’t think she’s going to get in so potentially doesn’t want to invest too much as a self preservation thing. We will see!!

Thanks for the new thread @Lightsabre .

Good luck to everyone with interviews in the next couple of weeks.

DS2 still waiting for interview at Cambridge but did receive email to say he was going to be interviewed.

Are all interviews held before Christmas?

OP, would you be willing to tell us exactly what was said about the shortlisting algorithm? Who identified it as having made a mistake? And do you know if it related to one specific score in the mix?

Sorry, not OP, but @Sybill -- I am very curious about this and would love to know more.

@Lightsabre

Thanks. I wasn’t sure if that spreadsheet was being kept up to date . Lots of people at the top don’t seem to have updated their entries, judging by the entries further down the spreadsheet who’ve applied to the same college. Also maths interviews start in a week so they’re cutting it fine!

@Sybill
That's interesting. I had always been told that unis, including Oxbridge, only look at the best 8 GCSEs, so didn't know the number of GCSEs actually was included in the calculations (although, in reality, most Oxbridge applicants seem to apply with 11/12 GCSEs).

Would love to hear more!

Only private schools would have as many as 12 round here. Mostly only those with Maths and further maths have 11. One of the top sixth form colleges in the country is our school

@Wolvesart Most people around here do 10 or 11 (indies and comps) but I know the top set at the local comp do 12!
I guess the query was more around whether you would be disadvantaged if you 'only' do 8 or 9 GCSES. As I have always been told they base calcs on the best 8, but @Sybill indicated that 25% of the weighting on entry came down to 'number of GCSEs', which was news to me.

DD is at local comp and had 12 plus level 3 add maths. Old area comps were 9 and think grammar 10.

Some places do quite a lot more than 8/9 - DD's school for eg do more, but over 3 years. That may be a Wales thing, as some subjects are still modular here. Top set would typically end up with 15. They do about 5 early, not all whole ones. I have always thought that it was no advantage at all for uni applications, but just a different way of approaching the narrowing of the curriculum - do it a year earlier but keep more subjects. So 15 over 3 years instead of 10 over 2 years.

My son has only done 6 with only one top grade (8) and has an interview so I don't think that there is a minimum number.

He also has offers now from 2 RG universities. There are a lot of myths regarding the number of GCSEs and their impact on university applications.

In reality many will have 11/12 top grades of course.

There are some extenuating circumstances for my son which resulted in major disruption to education which is why, I think, he has an interview despite the number of GCSEs he has taken.

Our Independent school only does 9, cut down from 10 the year before, and minimum was 8. Those that did more usually a language that they were already fluent in and had to timetable it themselves. Guess it depends on each school!

dd is at a private school and took nine: her school recommends nine as a maximum but some students have more if they have languages at native/near native level. Her school does not enter students for GCSEs in years 9/10, it’s year 11 only.

Snap!

DD is at a comprehensive school - she did 11 GCSEs as she did separate sciences - probably the top 3 science sets do separate sciences with thw rest doing dual award. I think 11 is too many tbh. But at least she listened to my drip feed of how doing 4 A Levels wouldn’t be a good idea for her (she does English Lit, History and Spanish) even though one of her friends does the same plus Religious Studies and seems OK with that

The data I’m referring to is for Oxford medicine shortlisting only - it may be a complete irrelevance for other Oxford courses. Their admissions website is clear and transparent on what they look at - equal weighting for GCSE and BMAT ( if GCSEs were sat, otherwise it’s double weight to BMAT). If GCSEs were sat, they share 2 graphs - one is number of GCSEs sat, other is distribution of 9/8s. So my assumption is that the GCSE score is weighted 25% for each (which may be incorrect - they don’t publish it specifically). But they’d be unlikely to publish it if it weren’t used in some way (again I assume).
On shortlisting, they also state that about 80% of interview places are as a result of the ranking from the calculation, with the other roughly 20% from those who didn’t make the cut but could have extenuating circumstances to explain that (eg attended a poor performing school where only 8 GCSE's are sat as norm, for example). They should be commended for this (in my opinion) as it is shows commitment to supporting those whose journeys have been less fortunate than others. If you look at the graphs and the numbers, this is probably where the majority of those who have been shortlisted with 9 and less GCSEs are coming from (there may also be some in there whose higher BMATs compensated for “just 9 GCSEs”).

So, the summary from what my DD shared with me is that if you are non-contextual or have no extenuating circumstances, you’ll need to be having 10 GCSEs at 100% 9/8 grades to maximise the GCSE part of the equation and then the BMAT part just depends on who applies and where your score sits in relation to that (and assumes they do the calculation correctly 😉). If significantly higher compared to the rest of applicant pool, then it could theoretically compensate for lower GCSE score (again, depends on applicant pool)

Disclaimer #1: analysis above is a combination of DD and I looking at the data they sent and chatting on it for about 10 minutes so it may be complete rubbish. But we do like a logic puzzle.
Disclaimer #2: All questions really should be directed to the admissions dept. They seem honest and helpful and are trying to do the right thing
Disclaimer #3: this is the last year that BMAT is being used so it will change again next year but my advice to applicants is to look at the admissions data they share carefully as it does tell you what they’re looking for.

And apologies for the thesis - I’ll take myself back to the Medicine applicants thread now!!
And best of luck to all the DC with their applications - just giving it a go takes guts so they should all be proud of themselves for that

Gosh there is tremendous variation in number of GCSEs people do. We only know one or two people in our sixth form with more than 11 plus 2 at local independent schools. Judging by who’s got interviews, number and quality of GCSEs isn’t much of a factor. The ‘student most likely to get an interview’ in DCs friend group didn’t. They had everything you might have thought ✔️ for on UCAS from extra curricular activity through school council to GCSEs, predicted grades and ace personal statement and have 3 offers from other unis to date. This same thing happened to a contemporary of mine and the school (old fashioned grammar) successfully appealed directly to the college. Apparently that doesn’t happen now.

Interview dates now received - Tuesday and Wednesday this week. Spent the weekend rebuilding confidence following a mock interview with a teacher at another school…no one minds a ‘challenging’ interview, but this person seemed to have an axe to grind against the school….😩 I hope they feel better about themselves following a 30 minute berating of a teenager. I’ve said to harness the negativity and turn it into a positive but obviously easier to say when it wasn’t me who went through it…

Good luck to all the DC this week.

On the 'number of GCSEs taken' issue, my understanding is, they are interpreting them in the context of the individual school. So, if 10 GCSEs are the norm in a school (this will be stated on the UCAS 'school profile' page), but a candidate only took 9, this would put them at a disadvantage. But if a school only offers 9 as standard, then fine. There is no need to be doing 12 GCSEs etc. More often than not, the amount of GCSEs a school offers are due to timetabling issues or staff availability.