Any experience of a child who struggled at A level / BTEC and found their feet at Uni?

[DevonDiva]

Hi. DD has ADHD and issues with working memory and slow processing speed. She did OK in her GCSEs (with quite a bit of support - mostly 6s and 5s including English and Maths) and then went on to do three A levels / BTECs. She has really struggled, particularly with two of them. She didn't put a lot of effort in in the first A level year, but certainly is now (and she is seeing a tutor once a week for each subject), and it doesn't seem to be improving that much. She doesn't seem to know what is needed for the exams, and also seems to struggle with extracting and managing information from sources to produce written work. She's still getting Ds and Es in assessments (the third subject is OK).

The problem is she has her heart set on a career that requires a degree (there is no "associate" type version of the profession, and you can't do an apprenticeship without also doing the degree). Some courses do a foundation year so I think it's probable she'll get in even if her grades don't improve but I am just really worried she won't "get" the degree level work. It's a relatively practical course (which I think will suit her well and she would be good at this part of the job) but there will still need to be some theory and "normal" academic style assessments. Does anyone have experience of this, and have children who've found their feet at Uni after struggling? I wonder if a year out may help? Any technology suggestions for working memory etc? Any advice would be welcome.

How is she doing in the BTEC?

(I can't really help as neither of mine have gone to university. I just think if struggling with both A level and BTEC then it is more of concern.)

Is there a lower level similar job? e.g. I know social work is degree, but there are support roles that aren't.

She's better with the BTEC but still not finding it easy, particularly pulling together coursework which I find particularly concerning. There are support roles but they tend to be very few and far between and extremely poorly paid with no progression, so fine as a shorter term option if she could get one but not really a longer term option. It's frustrating for her as the impact of her executive function difficulties have increased as she has got older - when she was at primary they weren't such an issue and she kept up fairly easily.

How much help has she accepted over her Executive Function issues?

DD1 (24, dyspraxia, incl EF issues) resisted for quite a while but over time has got reasonably competent, though still needs some help from me when overwhelmed.

I'm just wondering if a real push on strategies to help might be sufficient?

@TeenDivided she takes medication which helps with focus, but no, she hasn't really engaged with strategies to improve executive function. She has had small amounts of support a college with study skills but nothing specific. Do you have any suggestions that have helped - to be quite honest I've found very limited workable strategies to help with EF issues - it seems people are very keen to diagnose, but less keen to provide clear ideas of how the impact can be reduced.

Is the btec directly related to her university course or not? Neurodivergent people can often hyperfocus on the thing they are interested in, so if it is different then she may well be fine.

From personal experience, school learning didn't suit me, whereas university did. I have poor short term memory, so rote learning for tests did not work and my grades were worse than expected. At uni you get to deep dive and pick subjects, so I could get a full understanding of things that interested me.

Can you say what the job is? It sounds like she is working really hard, but the traditional academic route might not be suited to her learning style. There could be other related roles with a vocational route in that people could advise on. (I manage a very successful employee with similar challenges).

For my DD we helped her EF issues by the following, though with ADHD as cause I have no idea whether they will help yours:
. Reminders on phone. Plus rule to never turn off reminder until the actual job complete (got caught by turning off as 'about to do' then forgetting numerous times!)
. A place for everything and everything in its place
. Checklists, and more checklists
. Planning out reports by headings and subheadings before starting to write, and cross checking against assignment brief / the spec to ensure all required topics will be covered
. always write everything down, never assume you will remember anything
. to do lists
. rough notes / planning in an A4 spiral bound notebook, not on 'bits of paper' which could get lost

One of my DDs had to work really hard at school to produce mediocre results. She really started to flourish I yr 13 and did well in her A levels.
She now in her second year at a good university and doing really well even in difficult modules. She’s still working hard but getting high grades in her work.

Hi @NanFlanders. It's an allied healthcare role, but quite specific. There are a number of healthcare roles that can go down the vocational route (e.g. nursing associate, maternity care assistant), but she is not keen on these as they are likely to be much more stressful and she is not particularly resilient. The role she wants is a bit of a "step back" from the front line but still patient-focused. There is an apprenticeship but they are degree apprenticeships so she would just end up doing the same degree over longer but while juggling work at the same time - and they are as rare as hens teeth!

The problem with degrees is that you are expected to do so much of the learning on your own. On top of coursework, assessments and exams. They need an awful lot of self-management. And that's on top of the day-to-day stuff if the student moves away to live - shopping, cooking, laundry, cleaning etc.

With a formal diagnosis she could apply for Disabled Student Allowance which might help with eg specific software, mentor etc. But fundamentally it will be down to her to fix sessions with a mentor etc.

If you are honest with yourself, do you think she is actually capable of doing the actual job she wants? Presumably there will be paperwork, appointments to be kept to etc.

My neurodiverse DS did what was necessary at school. Then went to work. Decided he wanted to work in health so did an access course and then a degree. He went from being an ok student, at school, to obtaining a 1st class degree because he wanted to do this! Interest in the subject is a great incentive!

Hi @Seeline Yes, I do think she would be capable. She's actually not too bad at all with "life admin" and organising appointments etc. and she can write succinctly and clearly. It seems to be the higher order managing of information that is the problem - i.e. writing large pieces of work, understanding and writing about theories etc. so the backbone of academic assessment. I agree that the whole self-management bit will be challenging for her (particularly with leaving home, which is the only option). Also my feeling is there is actually really very little that can be done to improve working memory etc. so the impact of support and mentoring is likely to be limited - would be very happy to be proved wrong though.

I have ASD and bipolar, both diagnosed in my adult years. I did awful at school, and left with little more than bad memories. I was easily distracted and inattentive, and didn't seem to learn the same way as my peers, which meant I was left behind. Having left school and eventually stumbled on a career I was reintroduced to education, and found that I was able to learn in my own way on my own terms, and did remarkably well thereafter. I managed to achieve a BSc (Hons) upper second, and several other technical and professional qualifications. I just wanted to illustrate that despite disabilities, and previous poor performance it is possible to go on to achieve. So don't give up too easily. GL

Thanks @DRS1970 that's really positive. Is there anything you think that particularly helped, other than being interested in the subject?

Sorry @Karatema - missed your post. That's great and you must be very proud of your DS. It's interesting she's working so much harder now she knows what she wants to do, but it just seems that she has so far to go still. It must be so frustrating for her.

You can only encourage, encourage, encourage; you can't do it for them.

Good luck to your DD 😀

Success story here! DD doesn't have a diagnosis but does have ADHD symptoms. She did pretty well in GCSEs but couldn't revise for them, she got by though being engaged in class. She started A levels but dropped out because she just felt that they were pointless and couldn't study, she's now doing a nursing associate course, a mix of placements and classroom stuff, which she absolutely loves because it's people based, and she is getting firsts in her assignments, which was what I was worried she wouldn't be able to do, but because she sees a point to it she is able to focus and study. She's in her second year now and will do a top up to get a full nursing degree. I posted on here at the time about dropping out of A-levels and doing an apprenticeship and I got a reasonable number of replies that were that she's going to ruin her life, but actually getting the admin apprenticeship in the NHS was the making of her as she never would've thought of doing nursing without it. and she's been able to start at the nursing associate level without A-levels. She had been working in hospitality since she was 15, and I knew that she was confident and good at communicating with people, but the year and a half apprenticeship in the NHS helped massively with her levels of confidence and motivation.

Some really positive stories here - thanks very much. I think she would benefit from a year out to work on her general "life" skills as she seems very young (as is often the case with ADHD). SEveral of you have suggested that a job was a good way of building confidence and motivation.

thanks for those suggestions @TeenDivided - she does most of those herself but could make use of phone reminders.

I wouldn’t write off the degree apprenticeship route. If she’s very practical it might be a much better fit, and spending more time on the doing can make the academic stuff fall into place.

without knowing what it is, I can’t really suggest routes but some students I’ve known with similar profiles to your daughter have done well working as (one specific example) a HCA on a rehab ward, before going on to qualify In orthotics through a degree apprenticeship. The work experience let them grow up a bit and gain confidence and then the Trust was more keen to recruit them and support them onto the degree apprenticeship as they’d proven themselves an asset.

Another success story here.
DC did well in GCSES 1A*, 2 As, 2 Bs and 3 Cs. Struggled with A levels and dropped one at the end of year 12.
Finally diagnosed with Inattentive ADHD in November of year 13 and got 2 Ds.
Did a 1 year foundation Art course at college to get additional UCAS points.
Got a place to do a healthcare degree and left with a 2/1. Diagnosed with dyslexia during final year at uni.
Now working as a band 5 at a London teaching hospital for over a year now.

I think not being sat in a classroom being force fed information helped most. Just being able to set my own pace, and dip in an out as I desired meant I was more focussed when I did study. Good exam technique is also a very useful tool. I found vocational courses very easy to complete, such as NVQs and BTECs. They are very modular in general, which helps to not become overwhelmed. My degree was through the Open University, so again very modular, and no sitting for hours in a classroom. There is definitely something out there that will suit, you just need to go search it out.

@Bunnyannesummers I (and she) do quite like the idea of an apprenticeship but she would a. have to get one of the very competitive assistant jobs in the trusts that run the scheme, which would mean leaving home as there are no schemes nearby (which I think is quite different to leaving home for uni) b. get accepted onto the degree apprenticeships from the assistant job ( you can't go straight to an apprenticeship) and c. do the same degree as everyone else while holding down a job (albeit over more time). The timescale is too long in her head and I might sound negative but I do think that would be more difficult than going straight to a degree (possibly via a foundation year).

@GasDrivenNun that's great to hear. It's a shame you can't do a foundation course in other subjects that isn't directly linked to a BSc course - she could have maybe done one at a uni nearer to home (which doesn't do the professional degree she wants) and then transfer to the BSc if she does OK. As far as I can see in all other subjects foundation years are directly linked to a course or suite of courses within that university.

Get the Pocket Study Skills book “Studying with Dyslexia” by Janet Godwin. It really is a very small book. It will give you and your DD tips on how she is able to study and what you can do to help.

For example, I’m able to study textbooks for 5 mins max, then I have to take a break, I’ve found doing something physical helps enormously (tidying, washing up for me but can be run up & down the stairs a few times, bounce on a trampoline). The trick is to give the dyslexic brain time to process what’s it’s just read.

Little and often is key.

Sounds good @SayNoToDoorToDoor - will order now. Thanks