Any experience of a child who struggled at A level / BTEC and found their feet at Uni?

[DevonDiva]

Hi. DD has ADHD and issues with working memory and slow processing speed. She did OK in her GCSEs (with quite a bit of support - mostly 6s and 5s including English and Maths) and then went on to do three A levels / BTECs. She has really struggled, particularly with two of them. She didn't put a lot of effort in in the first A level year, but certainly is now (and she is seeing a tutor once a week for each subject), and it doesn't seem to be improving that much. She doesn't seem to know what is needed for the exams, and also seems to struggle with extracting and managing information from sources to produce written work. She's still getting Ds and Es in assessments (the third subject is OK).

The problem is she has her heart set on a career that requires a degree (there is no "associate" type version of the profession, and you can't do an apprenticeship without also doing the degree). Some courses do a foundation year so I think it's probable she'll get in even if her grades don't improve but I am just really worried she won't "get" the degree level work. It's a relatively practical course (which I think will suit her well and she would be good at this part of the job) but there will still need to be some theory and "normal" academic style assessments. Does anyone have experience of this, and have children who've found their feet at Uni after struggling? I wonder if a year out may help? Any technology suggestions for working memory etc? Any advice would be welcome.

Have you both looked at how the course is assessed at some of the Unis?

It might be that there are lots of small projects and coursework and no exams or it might be all exams. The devil is in the details.

Also look at the pass rates and drop out rates for the courses.

@FlipsSakeMum it's mostly written assignments rather than exams, which I think will still be challenging. I think she'll be fine with case studies, reflective practice etc. but when she has to bring in and discuss theories or abstract concepts she finds it hard. There are also practical exams which I think will be fine.

You can do degree apprenticeships in nursing, occupational therapy and physiotherapy for example.
I think it is 3 days working in a hospital/community hub and 1 or 2 days a weeks at university/college per week. They get paid while they work. It takes 4 years to complete the degree.

@GasDrivenNun yes you can, but they are few and far between (and none are anywhere near us), they recruit from people who are already in assistant roles (or at least for the profession DD want there is not way to go straight to an apprenticeship from school) and then they do the same degree as a full time student while holding down a job. I really don't see how that would be easier for her although I can certainly see the attraction.

I suggested to DD (as above) that she should do her nursing through an apprenticeship so she got paid as she learned, but she said then she wouldn't get the whole university experience and the opportunity to leave home in a structured way and join clubs and societies and make a whole new group of friends easily. A lot of the students on her nursing associate course live at home with their families, either their parents or they have young families of their own, and DD only has one friend from her course in a similar position to her, the rest of her friends have been made through a university club and living in halls. I could completely see why leaving home to have to find a private rented shared house and not really have a peer group who were at the same stage of life as her would be the same thing as her university experience.

@MurielThrockmorton yes - that's another good point. University generally would do DD good socially as long as she can keep up with the work.

Combining both A level & Btec is not recommended for many students because they are such different learning styles. 5's & 6's at GCSE with help isn't really conducive to success at A Level. Is it possible to restart Y12 next year and do an extended Diploma Btec in something DD is interested in which is equivalent to 3 A levels. She's more likely to be successful doing something she's interested in.

DD has ADHD and struggled with GCSEs and A levels but got a distinction in her BA and is now doing an MA.

I also have (undiagnosed) ADHD, I got 4 low graded O levels and then dropped out of school but later went on to do an MA and PhD at a highly rated uni.

Everybody is different and every subject is different but both DD and I found studying at school and college stressful and overwhelming. There is a lot to memorise at lower levels if studying and fewer choices about how and when to study. DD and I both did well when we were able to plan and study in a way that suited us and (most importantly) the higher the level of study the more you can narrow your focus. I am really good at hyper focusing and found doing my PhD study and writing my thesis easier than school work because I could work mostly alone without distractions and focus deeply on a narrow area and with flexible deadlines.

Of course, this is not true for everyone with ADHD and some people may not be suited to formal study at all. The point is that finding one level of study difficult does not mean that you are not suited to the subject.

I used to teach at a university (not RG, but research-led, and excellent) where in my discipline, we took quite a few BTEC students. They needed DDD (3 distinctions) and often had an A Level alongside.

They generally were excellent in the practical work involved in this degree, but found essay writing a challenge. However, with a few tries at it, and an extra tutorial or two (fairness & my workload wouldn't allow for more than 2) on an essay, they got the hang of it generally.

So the adaptation into essay-writing or research reports or written work reliant on a lot of reading will take some getting used to, but I've always found BTEC student have other skills which mean they can be OK. I don't think such a student whom I've taught has graduated with a First, but a respectable 2, 2 is pretty standard, and perfectly OK.

@notquitesoyoung I did suggest this at the beginning of this year but she wasn't interested. The problem is not so much getting into Uni - I think she will definitely get the grades to get on a course with a foundation year as tariffs are quite low - it's whether it's realistic for her to cope with university level work. Particularly as she struggles with the coursework elements.

@Elvanseshortage thank you - those are very positive stories. I can sort of relate as didn't do well at A level but have since studied up to PhD level which I actually found easier.

No experience with a child but myself!

I really struggled with a-levels and eventually dropped out.

I did a level 3 qualification while working as a HCA which was mostly fine as it was heavily wored based.

A few years later I got into uni to study operating department practice (from your description it sounds like it could be the same!)
I went through clearing and got a spot.

My first assignment I passed with JUST 40% which was the lowest possible. I figured I didn't stand a chance. But as it happens, it's a totally different learning style at uni and I loved what I did. My time at placement really solidified the information and I found ways to get that down on paper. I accessed support from them when it came to some of the referencing etc and left uni with a first!

I've been practicing now for 6 years and love my job.

A lot of the assignments and assessments were on things around practice and I was doing that during placement so found it far easier to get involved. During A-Levels I just couldn't change information into an assignment or assessment. It didn't make any sense to me and felt like they were all speaking a different language.

I think being a vocational course might actually be really good for her!

I haven’t read the other responses yet but yes, absolutely, my daughter. Very bright but awful processing speeds which make timed written exams absolute torture. Did ok in GCSEs with masses of extra time etc. a levels much much harder and she really struggled. However, she deliberately chose a degree which had mostly assessed coursework not exams (landscape architecture in her case) and she did incredibly well in that. Then decided to go into either real estate rather than be a landscape architect so got a job in commercial property and they put her through a part time masters. Again that was assessed assays completed in her own time and a thesis. They also put her through her chartered surveyor professional exams, where she had to learn masses of stuff but it was an oral exam. So she is now earning a fortune 4 years out of uni (closing on 6 figs) and if you had told me in her sixth form that she would go on to get a BA, an MA and her professional chartered exams I would have said you were utterly insane.

Her brother with the same issues has taken the same approach and is doing an oceanography degree which is mostly assessed coursework. He is doing really well.

The absolute key is finding the right degree in which they are assessed by means which fit their strengths, ie a big component of practical/creative/continuous assessment, not exams, I think.

Ok now read whole thread. It sounds like your DD can be organised etc which is good and that she is doing a practically focussed course. I do also think with both my two with this issue that brain maturity is important and so I am sure your daughter will be better able to cope with the more theoretical work by the time she gets to uni and as she progresses through it. What a pp said about the practical aspects of her course reinforcing the more theoretical ones is a very good point. That maturity element might be another factor in favour of a gap year.
Second, see what facilities the unis she is looking at have when it comes to support for study/essay skills. The smaller/post 1997 unis might be better than the bigger older RG etc ones, but never take their word for it, go and actually look at what is on offer and talk to the staff at open days. So at DS’s uni they have an excellent writing cafe where any student (SEN or not) can drop in and ask for help with eg structuring an essay or study skills or whatever. It is really useful for getting them over a mental block or reassuring them they are on the right track.

Many moons ago now, I got a good set of GCSEs, I totally bombed my A levels (variety of reasons) even walked out of one and never got a grade, remarkably scrapped into University and I did well once there and went on to get a good graduate role and have progressed fromt here. I enjoyed it so much more than A levels and loved the variety of the different modules and smaller chunks of knowledge/work. I was able to hyperfocus on modules that interested me. I did have little blips a resit in my first year of one module and struggled at times with my deadlines but got there. I have also done professional exams over the years at times I've done well and passed first time and on occasions I've had to resit. But kept pluggin away. My eldest has ADHD and I now realsie its glaringly obvious I do too, though havnen't sought a formal diagnosis, not much point at my stage in life, I run my own business can can work to my own strengths and weaknesses. So yes it can be done, to excell at uni. But I was also very determined to succeeed and had lots of ambition, I was floored by my terrible A level results and wanted a successful career.

Thanks for sharing the positive experiences of yourselves / your DDs! This is encouraging. @Delphigirl I think your point about maturity is important and a year out that helps her get more practical experience as well as allow her brain development to catch up a bit would be good. All the unis she looked at have offered quite a lot of support on paper (including writing cafes) so I hope they walk the walk.

Sounds like a plan!

I think she will definitely get the grades to get on a course with a foundation year as tariffs are quite low - it's whether it's realistic for her to cope with university level work. Particularly as she struggles with the coursework elements.

I think most degrees include a dissertation element these days, so this may be an issue. Hopefully by year three your DD will have the maturity to cope with this.

Tutors and lecturers don't chase students for outstanding work. They are emailed assignemnts and given a deadline on the email. If the deadline is missed they get marks penalised. At DD's university it was 10% for every day over the deadline.

A friend whose son has ADHD was included in all university emails (the student has to give permission) so she could chivvy him along to meet his deadlines. He achieved a 2.1.

Hi I've not read all the posts but my dd has adhd. She did fairly well at GCSES (with minimal study) failed first year of a levels. (She assumed she could coast it) . She then did an NVQ level 3 in health and social and 1 A level in psychology, which she got a distinction and a C in. I was very dubious about uni as I felt she didn't have the discipline for it. It has honestly been the making of her. She's in her third year of her psychology degree and has grown up so much. She manages her own money. Cooks and cleans (kind of) maintains her degree and a job. She's set for a 2:1 and we are very proud of her.