A level choice for Physics degree

[Ghostrainstorm]

My son has no clue what he wants to do going forward but likes Physics and Maths ( predicted 8/9) . He struggles with English ( predicted a 6 which I think is generous ) . He doesn’t want to work in an office or do the same thing everyday . A levels he’s thinking of Maths (‘definitely’) , Physics and Business Studies . Doesn’t want to do Chemistry or Biology despite being good at both . Doesn’t believe me that he won’t be able to do a physics degree or anything science related with that choice . Anyone in the know able to back me up or put my mind at rest please . I really don’t see him in a financial job but think he’s going to limit himself with his choice

@EctopicSpleen I agree with all that.
The uni who said those without FM would struggle (though they did provide extra maths classes for those without) was an Oxbridge one. But the degree content obviously varies between universities and entry requirements / preferences will differ.

Dd1 is doing maths, further maths, physics and history, she is applying for physics degrees now and has 2 offers already.

DS did Maths, FM, Physics and Welsh Bacc. He dropped FM after AS. He has a 1st and Masters in Physics.

DT
Computer Science
Further Maths
A language

@ErrolTheDragon (DD did engineering at Cambridge with maths, FM and physics).
How???? I've known people applying with 5A* in M, FM, Ch, Ph, Bio, loads of maths olympiads etc and not get in. How does it work?

@Ghostrainstorm
You may want to look at these related threads.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4928594-maths-a-level-weakest-link
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4894303-a-level-choices-to-keep-options-open

My DS is in a similar (ish) position, but has no idea on the future.

Firstly, Maths, Physics and ANOther is probably the best combo for keeping options open, as numerous people have mentioned.
Re FM, as per the first link above, consideration is needed re the ability of DC, as it's obviously hard!
Has DC done a proper Y11 mock yet (mine hasn't), to give current ability.

You mention a Physics degree - is that what he is saying, or just something using Maths and Physics (or Business)?

Putting M, P and B in Uniguide gives (best match) Economics, Bus Man, Comp Sci and Accounting, reasonable for those, as Business A-level is included. It doesn't mean you can't do anything else. If you were expecting 20+ choices then it doesn't work that way.
Putting M, P and FM gives Maths, Mech Eng and Comp Sci.
But DC could do Mech Eng with M, P, and ANOther.

Short answer, M, P and Bus would be fine.
Consider carefully the choice of FM (ability-wise), or do it as a 4th and drop (or Business) as required.

And has the school/sixth form had an Open Day/Evening (ours is in a couple of weeks) where obv you can get more info on the subjects/content, etc.

Of course he can do a physics degree with those choices. No problem. However, question him carefully on why he doesn't want to do further maths now but does want to do a physics degree in 2 years time because the first thing he will realise when he starts a good physics degree course is that he has to self-teach all the further maths syllabus pdq if he is going to keep up with all the others on the course who did further maths (some unis may have a catch-up-maths module to avoid the self-teaching). If he doesn't like maths enough to want to do further maths now, he may be better off with a different degree subject.

You can get on loads of courses with FM, M and P. There’s no need for a 4th everywhere. Offers are made on three A levels. You are not necessarily more competitive with 5! There are not enough DC wanting to go physics to make all courses competitive but FM is helpful and, unless a uni says it should be a 4th, it doesn’t need to be. Perfectly good unis are available with 3.

OP,

If your DS isn’t interested in FM now, this is a great question. There are reasons besides disliking Maths to hesitate over FM now, but the question should be taken seriously. The catch up modules @YireosDodeAver refers to tend to proceed very rapidly! At my uni all Physics students take the same Y1 curriculum and there is a concern not to bore the large majority who have A’s at FM, even though we do not require it. (This is what comes of consumer driven education.)

I am ambivalent about 4 A levels, even when one of them is FM which I agree doesn’t quite count as a full AL when taken in parallel with Maths. If DS elects to skip FM, he may do best in a programme where the majority have done the same, so that the teaching will he geared towards them.

PS Assuming DS chooses Physics, I mean

One of my dc did physics with FM, Maths, physics and a 4th unrelated a level.
The FM definitely helped, but she had friends without that who were fine.
Does he like coding ?

@poetryandwine Which unis do not count FM as a full A level? I have looked at quite a few Physics courses. They all want Physics and Maths at A level. They are silent about the third. None say they want 4 if you do FM. As indeed maths degrees usually don’t either. I accept at the very elite unis, they might prefer 4 if you do FM, but I cannot see this is the case at many RG unis offering physics. Mostly they want decent applicants.

Not unis,@TizerorFizz , but in cognitive terms. Maths and FM are highly synergistic and if you elect Mechanics modules these co-ordinate well with Physics, also. So the cognitive load of those three, for pupils with strengths in this area, is less than the load of a gifted essayist doing Economics, Eng Lit and Eng Lang, for example.

IIRC some degree programmes at LSE do put constraints on how FM may be used. Possibly one or two other places as well. But only a very small number.

PS my understanding is that AL Econ is largely essay based; that is why I chose the example

Since you ask, and apologies for this diversion from the thread topic...As well as the 3 A levels, she'd done CS to AS level, and an 'artefact' EPQ designing and building a robot... perhaps more relevant than biology or even maths olympiads? I think she did well on the aptitude test. Then the interviews... one was an absolute train wreck, but the college she applied to did an extra test which she'd evidently managed well and the second interview was good. Her CV was a story of fascination and engagement with electronics starting from about yr 9, she'd done the gcse, got an Arkwright award etc etc. She was pooled and fished by one of the women's colleges. I guess she ticked the boxes for not just 'bright student' but 'someone who absolutely wants to be an engineer'.

To bring this back to the thread a bit, apart from helping her DS make good choices for his A levels, she can perhaps support him to work out a bit more clearly what he wants to do next (I was very fortunate to have a kid who had this sussed!) For starters, I think the 'insight into university' website may have some useful info on STEM courses and careers.

www.etrust.org.uk/insight-into-university

PPS Of course I agree with @TizerorFizz and others here and elsewhere that Maths, FM and Physics is an excellent preparation for a Physics degree.

It is my impression that the DS wants another string to his bow but I could be wrong.

Which unis do not count FM as a full A level?

None... a few specific courses (eg medicine, a few economics degrees) may not want maths, fm and only one other subject. Obviously there are some courses which may prefer an 'essay subject' alongside maths.

It's easy to check course websites for requirements, and if in any doubt when they're at the stage of choosing A levels then the student can contact a few admissions tutors for advice. Their contact details will be on the course websites somewhere.

There is no doubt that other forms of engagement and learning for engineering brings dividends. Many moons ago DH did similar and his school really knew what extra engagement engineers needed. Plus they even offered an architecture course! His school also took boys to lectures from Professor Heinz Wolff at Brunel uni. So he had plenty of first class input. I suspect extra stimulation might not be organised by schools these days but engaging with the subject in broader terms is important, whatever it is.

Plus. Problem solvers are not always the ones with most A levels. Or even the highest grades!

DS is in Year 12 doing maths, fm, physics and economics but is keen to drop economics asap to give FM the time it seems to demand in terms of sheer workload.

This seems a shame since he got a 9 for GCSE FM doing one lesson after school once a week and with no homework - but at A-level FM seems to be very full on compared to his other subjects.

Ideally I’d like him to keep the breadth (and gain useful knowledge) but it’s a hard argument to make when he knows perfectly well he only needs to pass 3 a-levels to get into university (probably to study maths or physics).

Thank you all - I’ve never figured out how to thank specific posters or quote people - but the etrust link looks great and I’ll show it to DS . He really has no clue what he wants to do next so that’s really helpful .

I think the Business Studies as third a level is about keeping his options open and an awareness perhaps that people doing well in business are often earning far more than engineers or other professionals. We are in an expensive area of the country and he realises living costs . I definitely support open options , 16 is very young to know what you want to do when you grow up ( I’ve still not figured it out at 50) . He seems to have a natural aptitude for physics and maths so I was just worried he might limit himself by trying to keep his options open.

Thank you to everyone that’s shared their own DCs experiences- it really does help and I’m so glad MN exists and that people do take the time to share their experiences.

Both DS1 (Chemistry) and DS2 (Physics) did maths and further maths and both said that those who hadn't were at a big disadvantage and had to catch up quickly.

@Ghostrainstorm
Doing Business A-level doesn't actually keep his options open, in that you don't need it at A-level for a Bus Man degree (or other similar), as not all schools offer it.
If doing Economics or Accounting degrees then need Maths (at the top level).
If he thinks he can do really well in Business and would enjoy it, then yes.

Maths, physics, further maths or comp science would be ideal.

Though I know someone who did maths, physics, and philosophy and is currently doing a PhD in physics.