A level choice for Physics degree

[Ghostrainstorm]

My son has no clue what he wants to do going forward but likes Physics and Maths ( predicted 8/9) . He struggles with English ( predicted a 6 which I think is generous ) . He doesn’t want to work in an office or do the same thing everyday . A levels he’s thinking of Maths (‘definitely’) , Physics and Business Studies . Doesn’t want to do Chemistry or Biology despite being good at both . Doesn’t believe me that he won’t be able to do a physics degree or anything science related with that choice . Anyone in the know able to back me up or put my mind at rest please . I really don’t see him in a financial job but think he’s going to limit himself with his choice

Would he do further maths?

I think he’s persuadable to do further maths

He will be able to do a physics degree with those choices, although adding in further maths would be preferable for many universities. We have been looking at A level choices for next year too so I have looked at the entry requirements for a lot of the universities. I’ve looked at physics, maths, engineering degrees ( mechanical etc not chemical) as these are what my son is edging towards.

Maths, physics and further maths I would think.
Not sure that further maths counts as a total separate subject so business studies still might be an option.

Computer Science may work as an option.

I'm not sure what I'm missing, but why on earth wouldn't he be able to do a physics or anything science related degree with that combination?

He'd be fine for physics, engineering or computer science, for example. If he's particularly keen on a specific university he may wish to check how high their preference is for further maths, but I'd say if he'd prefer to take business, he should take business.

Since when does maths and physics not qualify you for a physics degree??

I think he (and you) should look into the huge variety of careers that exist since there seem to be some pretty narrow ideas going round here. Working in an office isn't necessarily doing the same thing every day, for a start.

I used to work in a university Physics Dept. They said that anyone who had not done further maths would struggle. They offered remedial FM lessons for those without FM but said it was far better to start the course with FM under your belt.
Maths is the language of physics and they will be expected to cope with it from the first term.

https://www.theuniguide.co.uk/advice/a-level-choices/what-a-levels-do-you-need-to-study-physics
Physics and Maths A levels are the main requirements for Physics degrees.

Definitely do further maths. Maths, further maths, physics and business studies is a great combination

He will be able to do physics at many good unis if he gets good grades in physics, maths and one other subject. Also could do engineering, maths and computer science.

Further maths is definitely a good idea for all of those subjects, as PP said, if he's got the ability to get a decent grade in it. It absolutely does count as a valid third A level for those courses - though always a good idea to check requirements on uni course websites. (DD did engineering at Cambridge with maths, FM and physics).
However, its a good idea to start off doing 4 A levels if one is FM in case the step up from gcse is too much. (DD did comp sci to AS, pre-reform.)

Engineering degrees often have some 'business' related modules - a bit of accountancy and economics, some courses will have management options.

The other subject which fits well with maths and physics if he doesn't want to do a second science might be comp sci.

Another subject which can work with maths and physics is geography, if the student has the aptitude and desire to do an 'essay subject'/ humanity.

Of course he will be able to do a Physics degree with "just" Maths, Physics and another A-Level.

I completed a Physics degree and achieved a 2.1, having taken Maths, Physics and Psychology at A-Level.

Further Maths would help, but is far from essential.

Got qualified in my field following, now in a senior exec role in the City earning very good salary.

Thanks everyone for the great advice . I’m a solicitor myself with a humanities background not science . It sounds like my googling may have worried me unnecessarily. I looked on the Uniguide and the options for those A levels looked quite limiting . Will have a look in more detail and suggest further maths/ computer science and geography as he’s doing those GCSEs

Maths and Physics open up routes to Maths, Physics, Engineering, Material Science, Computer Science and Economics as well the multitude of degrees with no specific subject requirement (including many humanity degrees including law). The absence of Chemistry A level largely precludes Chemistry, Biochemistry and (most) medical degrees. The absence of a language largely precludes a language degree. However, that is about it.

The 'third' A level should be one that achieves the maximum grade. There can be some unwarranted prejudice against Business A level but if DC got an Astar in Business but only a B in Geography (because they were persuaded to do that as it is a 'proper' subject) then to access widest range of higher tariff courses, Business A level would have been the better choice.

Obviously it is potential risk in choosing an A-level without having experienced it at GCSE and you need to take into account the quality of teaching and results track record of the intended subject at sixth form/college. These would be more valid reasons to steer away from Business A level rather than a concern that, somehow, it is not an appropriate A level.

Another thought, if his school offers it, Design and Technology would also fit well with maths and physics.

Former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor chiming in. Lots of good advice here, OP. In particular, @PerpetualOptimist is correct that it will come down to grades (or UCAS tariff points). Teenagers frequently achieve best un the subjects they are most interested in.

Is that why DS is looking at Business Studies, or does he think this will be a career move? The former is fine; A level choices won’t matter for his career, assuming he graduates from university.

I agree that FM is likely to be very useful for a Physics degree. The most competitive Physics programmes require FM.

OP
I think you are misinterpreting the guide.

Business Studies won’t limit his ability to get onto a physics degree.
If he can do further math as an AS, that would be marvellous, but Business won’t hurt his odds.

Are you one of those people who are a bit snobby about Business?

I did maths, physics and drama a levels.

Everyone told me not to do drama because I wouldn't get into university with it. I ignored them because I knew I could get all A grades and I did. I got 6 uni offers for the science courses I applied for. I now have a doctorate.

Maybe get out of your child's way and let him make his own choices 🙃

Another vote for Maths , Further Maths and Physics

DS did Maths, FM, Physics and a fourth which had no connection to the sciences at all - he is now studying Physics.

I agree that FM is likely to be very useful for a Physics degree. The most competitive Physics programmes require FM.

Very few (possibly no?) degrees actually require FM, but the most competitive will have it as a 'recommended' or 'desirable' subject, one or two stipulate it should be taken if available and if it's not possible then do AS or some other extra stuff.

But as a previous poster has said, not having done FM will put the student at a disadvantage on such courses. The point of A level FM isn't to get a bit of paper to get onto a competitive course, it's to learn the FM needed to hit the ground running.

I'd suggest that if a student hasn't done FM then they should probably look at courses where the rest of their cohort hasn't mostly done it. There are lots of good unis in the U.K., and many good STEM courses available for students who don't have a starry set of perfect subject A levels.

I teach Business A Level and would advise him not to take it if his English isn’t great. There are a lot of essay questions, which he might struggle with.

Speaking as a physicist: computer science, geography and further maths are all relevant choices that work well as prep for a physics degree. Of these, further maths (FM) is arguably the best choice and is "preferred" by some physics departments, but not often compulsory. Geography is most relevant for those heading for geophysics or earth science orientated degrees. FM is bordering on a must if contemplating theoretical or mathematical physics.
My personal view is that although maths is indeed the language of physics and students are facilitated by FM, the choice double maths + physics as a 3 subject combination is simply too narrow, so double maths should only be allowed if taking four A levels. Not everyone will agree: the system can be "played" by taking double maths + physics only - it ticks the boxes for university admission but I don't think it's a broad or balanced education.
I did not have FM A level and didn't struggle at all, nor did others I knew. But there are large variations in ability within those who nominally have "top" grades and look the same on paper. Those who had done FM found first year easier but after that, their advantage was largely gone; some who did FM and had shone at A level got 2nd class degrees. What is probably true is that if a student struggles with FM at school they are also likely to struggle with a physics degree (unless the teaching in FM was bad).
There is also a difference between not having FM and starting a course where there's a reasonable mix of those with and without FM, so FM is not assumed, versus being one of the only ones that doesn't have FM starting a course where knowledge of FM is assumed. The latter scenario is likely to be far more tricky.

Brilliant advice - thank you all for taking the time - sounds like 4 a levels might keep his options open which is really all I want for him - lots of information to show him - thanks again