Oxbridge 2024 Entry Part 3

[Lightsabre]

New thread as Part 2 about to fill.

Sorry to hear that. Such a tough process to go through. X

Medicine is so hard. I know one kid, state school, perfect grades, the nicest person who didn’t get Cambridge but is now a GP. Anyone would have thought him the perfect candidate. It worked out.

Sorry to hear about the dc not getting invited to interview. I'm sure Oxbridge have their algorithms but it's disappointing when very high calibre students don't get offered an interview. I think for Medicine, if they have a place anywhere it's an amazing achievement.

Sybill sorry to hear of your DD's disappointment.

One thing though, the computer generated contextualisation certainly won't have penalised your DD any more than her two friends in the high achieving grammars.

Best of luck for her onward journey.

It’s so tough isn’t it.

In the end, there’s no knowing exactly why one person gets an interview and another isn’t. Oxford do contextualise GCSEs against the school average. However, schools can note down any number if mitigating circumstances which are factored in too, and often we don’t know what mitigating circumstances seemingly identical or similar students have. Sometimes students might get ‘flagged’ because of the postcode of their home address or school too. Who knows why they like one PS more than another - we never really know.

Many students feel their own type of applicant has been disadvantaged and other types favoured. And I think all types of students from all kinds of backgrounds can feel like this as they seek to understand why they didn’t get to the next stage when they were such strong applicants.

It’s so raw today, but given a bit of time, the students move on. Many of those called for interview won’t get places (and in some ways it’s harder still after the further effort for interview and long per wait) and getting a place at any medical school is such a massive achievement, to be celebrated.

I hope that even by this evening she feels a bit better and that all of you know that the raw pain of it will fade. It’s hard though isn’t it, when it’s often the first thing they wanted to achieve that hasn’t quite come off.

WombatChocolate the PS is of no relevance to invites for Oxford Medicine. They are very aware that medical work experience can be far easier to come by for some students than others apart from anything else. The algorithm for Oxford Medicine is overwhelmingly mathematical.

That said, I strongly second your point about not necessarily knowing the whole context of another applicant's application. The disappointed applicant is best off just assuming that whichever the uni in question is, it makes judgments on more info than anyone else has to hand. It only makes disappointment worse feeling aggrieved (not saying this about Sybill's DD - just generally - but I've been around the block long enough to see what makes disappointment with some candidates linger).

DS2 had a school friend who also applied for Cambridge medicine but didn't get an offer. The reason being about some applicants not being the right fit because of upbringing. This didn't make any sense as he hadn't had an out of the ordinary upbringing. I think a lot of this process just doesn't make any sense at all.

The reason being about some applicants not being the right fit because of upbringing

losingtheplot999 did the friend get rejected before or after interview? Was that something said in written feedback, or the friend's own post rejection analysis?

Rejection was before interview and this was the reason for not being interviewed. It is a Grammar School that they attend.

Just another point about Cambridge another school friend of DS2 was rejected for interview as they were given feedback that Psychology wasn't classed as a science A level. I'm not sure which course he applied for. Surely this should be put in the admissions criteria.

goodbyestranger I'm interested in how the GCSE contextualisation works because my DS is worried that his GCSEs will hold him back at this point and I had assumed that, being shortlisted, they already had been considered.

Basically he had no cohort for GCSE due to the fact that he was a school refuser (due to undiagnosed SEN and a severe mental health episode) and did them at home. He got very good GCSEs for a child who had been in his situation. His chosen subject (history) he achieved an 8 even though he self taught from text books in the 6 months leading up to the exam, but the rest were 6s and a 5 (6 in total).

Do you think this will be an issue for him now, mitigating evidence has been sent, or do you think this is already considered and the fact that he has been shortlisted means it won't be an issue?

I want to reassure him, if possible, that this now won't hold him back. Clearly it is still a dice throw whether he will get an offer but he's getting a bit hung up about the way his GCSEs will be handled.

Rejection was before interview and this was the reason for not being interviewed. It is a Grammar School that they attend

The fact of being at a grammar is not material in the slightest (plenty of Oxbridge medics are grammar educated). So it's just beyond bizarre that Cambridge made a comment in written feedback about an applicant's domestic situation.

lifeturnsonadime am I right that he's applied for History?

Derailing slightly, and I'm very sorry to hear about your YPs rejection @Sybill.

I think medicine is such a weird subject - we are desperate for doctors and medics in this country (my brother is a consultant surgeon and is so frustrated by staffing levels...) and yet I know of at least 4 young people last year, all of whom had stellar predictions - from private, state grammar and comprehensive schools - who didn't get offers AT ALL for medicine!!! It is bonkers and is absolutely NO reflection on the YPs ability or affinity for the subject - but sadly, I think, is down in no small part to the fact that institutions can take foreign applicants who will pay more and cover the spiralling costs (to the unis) of running courses.

Yes

lifeturnsonadime the college will almost certainly have read the mitigation, or he most likely - with an undisrupted education - wouldn't have got invited to interview with those grades. The tutors go back to all the evidence in the round in the debrief sessions which happen after the interviews. Both the grades and the mitigation will be part of the whole picture there. But the reality for your DS is that the interview is going to be key, as well as his HAT score. It's fantastic that he's been shortlisted - very well done him!

Out of curiosity, was it his college of choice that shortlisted him, did he get re-allocated, or did he make an open application?

@Panicmode1
I'm pretty sure that international medicine places are capped at a certain percentage. And total places also capped by govt, unless things have changed v recently. So medical schools can't offer places based on what the NHS needs, unfortunately.

Thanks goodbyestranger. I'm really very proud of him. He has literally turned his life around in the last 2 years.

He made an open application and he was allocated a college which, I think, is more likely to be sympathetic to his situation than some would be which is helpful. He has been offered an interview for the college to which he was allocated.

It's good to know that his GCSEs will be looked at in that way and they have likely already been considered.

He did some interview practice at school yesterday with the head of history and the feed back was positive, just one tip about not covering his mouth with his hand which I'm sure he can work on.

What will be will be, to be in a position of being shortlisted is simply remarkable from where he was 2 years ago. I'm thinking his HAT must have been OK as I don't think he would have been shortlisted with his GCSEs if it wasn't. But what do I know?

Thanks for responding, it's good to have insight from someone who's been through the process, and from memory you have been through it several times with your DC!

Yes, sorry, I was typing/thinking too quickly and I worded it badly - why the Government can't release more places to home students to alleviate the staffing issues is beyond me (I know there are physical restrictions, but we NEED doctors!).

Not surprised you're super proud lifeturnsonadime. Three of my DC read History. Different colleges and different interview approaches at each. Interested in why you suppose any particular college might be more sympathetic? Is that purely because it's a college which tends to be less applied to? I really hope he gets an offer anyhow. My DC have had plenty of peers with unconventional backgrounds. It seems to me that the tutors like diversity and don't simply want to recruit echo chambers. Fingers crossed!

we def need to fund more medicine places in the Uk. Far too used to taking students from elsewhere. Any wealthy entrepenuers want to start this?!

@Panicmode1
Amen to that!
I think historically it was cheaper to import doctors than to train them. But now apparently we don't want immigrants either, so screwed both ways 😖

Goodbyestranger.

There is a bit of a reluctance to give college information on here but yes it's less popular as a first choice college, but also is more known for diversity/ unconventional backgrounds than others.

Thanks for the wish of luck. Everything crossed but he will be happy at his second choice too so will wait and see.

There are restrictions on medical training places because of teaching and supervision requirements on the job in hospitals. There is a plan to increase medical school training places to 15,000 by 2031 and there are an additional 205 places in 2024. Between 2018 and 2020 medical school places increased from 6,000 to 7,500 and opened 5 new medical schools.

This is a problem that has been going on for decades - it takes a long time to add provision and it was cheaper to import qualified doctors rather than train our own young people. The tide is turning but it doesn't happen overnight.

If it was natural sciences, it is stated very clearly on their entry requirements:
"'Science/mathematics subjects' refers to Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics and Further Mathematics. It does not include Psychology."