Page 4 | Maths A-level - weakest link

stubiff · 2023-10-26T09:49:22+00:00

Following on from DS’s choices dilemma (still ongoing) and the thread re AAC (C in Maths) then interested in DC experiences of taking Maths A-level and it being the weakest link (for whatever reason). If they got Maths GCSE 6, or 7 even, did they regret taking Maths A-level. If they got 777 at GCSE, did they expect predictions of BBB (or the same grades across the board) but found Maths harder/got lower (predicted/actual). Did they take Maths A-level to ‘keep options open’ or because school/parents/MN/ANOther recommended it, and then regretted it. Did they get predicted AAC, or BBD (say), and have trouble picking Unis/courses, or the level of Uni/course. Thanks.

Publication · 31/10/2023 15:47

Needmoresleep · 27/10/2023 14:53

DC school warned against taking math A level without strong GCSE grades, no matter what parents might say. Maths A level without much aptitude can be done, but it is very hard work.

Dispiriting as well. Others are breezing through, grasping concepts quickly and doing their homework on the bus, whilst when the less mathematical are spending hours getting to the answer and holidays practicing test papers, probably with some top up tuition thrown in. We have seen kids do it, but they have tended to be determined, say to read vet-med or to apply to a top US University, even though they are not natural scientists.

It is also one thing getting through maths A level with a lot of hard work and determination, and another to use that qualification to access a highly quantitative degree course. That is a recipe for misery.

Yep that was my son. He was used to doing well in stuff yet in his maths class he was well at the ‘bottom’ and was bemused at how quickly everyone else grasped topics. I felt sorry for him. He did get the A he needed for his Economics degree but goodness it was stressful and damaging for his confidence.

WombatChocolate · 31/10/2023 15:48

I agree that ‘getting maths’ and being a natural at it is really important for success at A Level. In some schools with 6th Forms, as well as GCSE grade, teacher recommendation is listened to as well. Teachers know some might have scraped their 8/9 and look okay on paper, but really are not good mathematicians. Equally, there might be an odd case (will be rare) where someone got a 7 due to mitigating circumstances but really is an excellent mathematician. The teacher will know that.

It’s a shame as Maths A Level is such a great qualification to have an opens doors to lots of other things. But for those not naturals at maths, in most cases, they can do another subject and come out with a much better grade….that’s the thing to consider.

Lampzade · 31/10/2023 15:52

WombatChocolate · 27/10/2023 17:45

I think it’s clear that looking at what students got at GCSE and/or A Level if both/either were during Covid years isn’t helpful….the usual comparisons cannot be made.

The reality is that lots of parents and students don’t grasp the likely outcomes of starting A Level Maths with a 6,7 or even 8 at GCSE. People assume their child has a ‘good’ GCSE so a good A Level is achievable. This is possible in most subjects, although clearly, the higher the GCSE the more likely a higher A Level in all subjects. But in Maths, even a Level 9 might be achieved without grasping fully 25% of the GCSE specification. GCSE Level 6/7 student probably hasn’t mastered 50% of the GCSE course. And it really matters.

Lots of parents and students say that they wish people had made it clearer how hard they would find A Level Maths. In selective schools, they often will only let those with 9s do it and even for some of them they will recommend they don’t…..why? Because they know who is actually good at Maths and can cope with the step up and who has simply been coached to scrape the 9. They also know that some of those students with an 8/scrape 9 could achieve extremely good and often top grades in other A Level subjects, but might be stuck with a C or lower or at very best a B at A Level. And they know that they will be better served in applying to Uni with some As and Astars than predictions of a couple of As and a C.

Still people refuse to believe it though. Every school and seemingly everyone knows a student who had a mediocre Maths GCSE who then went onto get an A at A Level. And they think this could be their child. Well it could……but it’s far more likely not to be.

It’s also true that one should consider what the 2 years if studying experience will be like. Not being brilliant or A*/A standard in History or English or a science won’t mean it’s extremely difficult to access the course or produce decent answers. It can still be enjoyable with a sense of achievement. In Maths, if you have to absolutely shave and devote 3x the effort than you do for other subjects, and can even then only just about access a C, or totally fail to grasp some topics….well it’s miserable.

So, that’s not to say no-one should do it. But it is the case that people need to go into it with their eyes wide-open about what it will be like as an experience and the likely outcomes.

You could take the view that a Maths A Level at C/D/E level is still an A Level in Maths and opened doors. That’s probably true. But at the same time it could be that instead of an A/B in another subject. Of course if you want a career or degree that requires Maths, you probably have to push on through. But if you don’t, it’s worth considering very hard if you’re not a top student.

Totally agree
Many of dd2’s friend dropped out of A level maths because they found it difficult.
Also others dropped physics which has a high mathematical content. These were students who achieved 8 and 9’s at GCSE Maths
I wouldn’t advise anyone to do maths A level if they don’t have the natural ability

Publication · 31/10/2023 15:59

To give some balance, my child who can do maths standing on her head, who got a stars in maths and further maths A-levels, is traumatised by the idea of writing essays! Subjects like English and history, are the stuff of nightmares for her. She even struggles with writing in birthday cards!

Whereas my ‘non-maths’ child can analyse texts and write beautifully and creatively. They are all wired differently.

WombatChocolate · 31/10/2023 16:10

Publication · 31/10/2023 15:59

To give some balance, my child who can do maths standing on her head, who got a stars in maths and further maths A-levels, is traumatised by the idea of writing essays! Subjects like English and history, are the stuff of nightmares for her. She even struggles with writing in birthday cards!

Whereas my ‘non-maths’ child can analyse texts and write beautifully and creatively. They are all wired differently.

Yep, some of those students who think they will never need to write more than a sentence again post-GCSE have found it very hard to write their Personal Statement for UCAS where Freeform writing has been required (although not after this year).

This said, many of those who far prefer a good number to a word, if generally capable, could probably get better than a C at A Level in many humanities or social sciences, whilst the weaker at Maths, simply couldn’t. Plus, the other thing is the experience of lessons….whilst most natural scientists/mathematics might prefer those subjects, they could sit in Geography or Sociology and get the general gist of the lesson and get something g down on paper, even if it isn’t very good, whilst the weaker student in Maths, can find the whole lesson in Maths is just mind-boggling and that they have no idea of how to start their homework and get to the end. It just is different, even though clearly many people do have a natural strength in one area or the other.

Where students are overall solid but not strong across the board (think grade 6/7 GCSE) they will generally do better in arts/humanities/social sciences. It doesn’t mean they will get top grades, but something like a B is much more achievable for the hard worker, than a B in Maths would be.

Publication · 31/10/2023 16:41

WombatChocolate · 31/10/2023 16:10

Yep, some of those students who think they will never need to write more than a sentence again post-GCSE have found it very hard to write their Personal Statement for UCAS where Freeform writing has been required (although not after this year).

This said, many of those who far prefer a good number to a word, if generally capable, could probably get better than a C at A Level in many humanities or social sciences, whilst the weaker at Maths, simply couldn’t. Plus, the other thing is the experience of lessons….whilst most natural scientists/mathematics might prefer those subjects, they could sit in Geography or Sociology and get the general gist of the lesson and get something g down on paper, even if it isn’t very good, whilst the weaker student in Maths, can find the whole lesson in Maths is just mind-boggling and that they have no idea of how to start their homework and get to the end. It just is different, even though clearly many people do have a natural strength in one area or the other.

Where students are overall solid but not strong across the board (think grade 6/7 GCSE) they will generally do better in arts/humanities/social sciences. It doesn’t mean they will get top grades, but something like a B is much more achievable for the hard worker, than a B in Maths would be.

Show quote history

As my son said, you can’t ’waffle’ in Maths ;-)

WombatChocolate · 31/10/2023 16:46

Yes, I think that sums it up. Everyone can get something down on paper in a written subject. It might not be very good, but everyone can write something and fill some pages. It might not get many marks, but probably isn’t as soul destroying as sitting trying to do a maths paper that you have no idea about where to start.

Needmoresleep · 01/11/2023 16:25

On the other hand there will be students who discover that A level maths is far more interesting than GCSE, and that University maths, especially if used as a tool to access a subject they are interested in, can be even more fun. It happened to both of mine (economics and engineering). I suspect they had largely switched off during GCSE and had mastered the art of scribbling off homework during other lessons. It was important for them to then realise that at A level they would have to put more effort in but equally they then got more reward out.

Probably not totally applicable for A level, but DS who started to get a bit lost in his second term at University was given the good advice of taking two hours before a lecture to familiarise himself with the top that would be covered, then about four hours after making sure he understood. Followed by regular revision to ensure that as well as staying on top of new material he did not forget the old. It worked. He was able to keep a steady pace, without panics or late nights. My recommendation would be to accept that maths A level forms a new challenge, whether relatively easy or quite difficult, and resolve to stay on top of the material as best you can, and ask for help/advice if you can't. Starting with four is a good idea.

GrassWillBeGreener · 01/11/2023 17:40

Like @Publication I have one good at maths and one a natural at maths. Both had straight 9s in GCSEs. DD enjoyed maths as long as she "got it" - and didn't enjoy the pause while others around her seemed to understand immediately while she wrestled with a concept. She probably could have got her A* prediction but ended up with a solid A (TAG) and was happy with that. She wouldn't have dreamt of trying FM. The fact that she does think logically and analytically was beautifully illustrated by the spreadsheet she put last summer's reading on to monitor how much time she needed to complete it (now studying English lit). The one who is a natural breezed through A level maths and enjoyed FM, and rose to the challenge of working for STEP papers. They illustrate how even amongst those who get 9s at GCSE there is a wide range of underlying ability.

Those who are getting 7-8 at GCSE not through failing to understand or complete questions, but largely through silly mistakes, are potentially those most likely to still manage A level maths, as long as they are prepared to identify those errors and work to iron them out. If they are getting through without putting much effort in because they aren't really challenged by the material, maybe A level maths will motivate them. But absolutely they need to get their algebra both quick and accurate in advance of starting, if they want to be able to keep up!

oddgirl · 01/11/2023 19:23

Absolutely agree with many of you. DD achieved an 8 in maths gcse but most definitely NOT a natural mathematician. Got the 8 by doggedly doing loads of practice papers and seeing similarites in questions but I think she would agree she didn’t have the deeper ability/natural talent required at A level and more importantly it would have made her utterly miserable. I think teachers know the kids well and are well placed to help make these decisions. Pretty certain DD excellent maths teacher would have advised “don’t put yourself through it” if we’d asked.