Design Engineering: UK universities

[Orquid]

DD16 is thinking in studying design engineering at university and we are looking for recommendations on which universities she could apply. We live in London, she thinks she would like to stay in London so thinking Imperial College.

Other options are Bath and Bristol. What other universities do people recommend fir this course? She knows it is competitive, how many universities she needs to apply for? I believe open days have already passed this year.

I think UCL offer architectural design only? She doesn’t want to do that

Would be grateful for any advice, DH and I are both foreigners but kids born and growing up in London. DD wants a lively/busy city

Will ask her to look at Leeds and Northumbria for Product Design but I think an Engineering degree will give her more options? oShe likes the product design part but also the mechanics, electronica part involved.

@Orquid

I think the Foundation Year is a moot point in this scenario.
Most don't offer it. A couple I could find are lower ranked (DC should be aspiring higher IMO) AND they don't need Physics anyway (for the non-foundation year version).

If it was my DC I think I would be saying:

Look at Des Eng at Imperial and Loughborough (course modules) and see if the Engineering side floats their boat - to confirm, if you can, Des Eng over Product Design.
Apply for the MEng.
Forget about a Foundation Year version.
Don't do a GAP year (just to earn).
Don't do Physics A-level separately.
Look (ask on TSR) which bit of Physics A-level helps with Des Eng, and learn a bit of that over the next couple of years. (Bear in mind they won't be doing hard Physics stuff on the course on day 1, as a number won't have Physics A-level).
Do MOOCs, experience days/courses, etc.
Look at Bath (course modules) and see if/how different they are to the other two, to see if DC really prefers that. As, it looks like that's more or less the only reason for needing to take Physics.

Re Bath requirements, 'Engineering' will almost certainly mean the Engineering A-level (usually at Colleges), not that DT (or other subjects) qualify as an Engineering type subject. So my reading is that DC would need Physics to apply to Bath.

Titchy is right that a foundation year is one approach, though this then uses one year of the four year funding, difficult if you then opt for a four year engineering or Scottish degree.

"A levels in a year" are mainly provided by private tutorial colleges. Google the phrase with a "near me". If you are near London, Oxford or Cambridge lots will pop up. Then look at the results. Some will have a cohort of motivated students, often from overseas, who are aiming for good UK Universities. These colleges will often select. Teachers can be good. It can be a lot nicer coming in part time just to teach your subject to small groups, than teaching in a school with all the extra responsibilities. Others, resembling old fashioned crammers, will be taking kids doing retakes who remain largely unmotivated, or others from overseas having a structured year abroad and improving their English without any obvious endgame. (DD had a friend whose recently arrived expat parents struggled to find something suitable for their sporty but not academic child. She had a few eyebrow-raising tales about the social lives of rich kids of Kensington.)

They are not cheap but if you are motivated and taking a single subject you have much of the week free to work. There is some on-line providers, but Physics is probably better done in a lab.

Thank you.

I think I am leaning to the no foundation year and no gap year advice. She did like the course in IC when she looked at it.

Probably best she applies for the universities she can with current subjects and if she gets an offer she likes go for it and if she doesn’t then she will have to take the gap year and do physics in a tutorial college to improve her chances.

@Orquid For any Engineering undergrad degree at Imperial, it’s very competitive. She doesn’t have FM. The vast majority there will have. For several other places, this could be a deal breaker if they are competitive. As she has limited choice anyway, it makes sense to concentrate on unis where there’s a better chance. What unis say they will consider isn’t always the same as what the successful students actually have. Also look for strong industry links.

You are talking about mechanics and electronics. She has to realise that at many top unis, these interests and curricula areas are supported by Physics. Many will have Physics A level as it’s the standard route into Engineering. Other than Chemical engineering and the course I suggested at Sheffield. Sheffield is a powerhouse of engineering and they should not be ignored if she can get there without Physics.

Other than that I tend to agree with @clary . Don’t look for a foundation. 5 years at Glasgow isn’t worth 5 years of her time unless yr1 is more of a foundation. Read every detail of what is taught. Decide against engineering if she prefers product design. Be honest about that because not doing physics A level was either poor advice or she’s not really that interested in engineering. At all the unis mentioned, engineering is tough. It’s many full days learning. So she must evaluate what makes her tick and try and choose courses that reflect her interests whilst realising many engineering degrees have identical modules in y1 and 2. So lots to be evaluated.

Aston university have a good Design Engineering course, it's a BEng but can be followed with an MSc in a more targeted subject.

Entry is BBC at Aston so that’s somewhat the opposite of Imperial.

@TizerorFizz
See what you're saying but think beggars can't be choosers in this scenario (if any DC really wants to do Design Engineering).

To add to my list of 10 above -

Aston (11 on the list!) - ok without
Nottingham Trent - Civil Engineering Design
City - Mechanical and Design Eng (ok without)
Queen Mary - Design, Innovation and Creative Eng (ok without)
Bournemouth - ok without

Down to the BBB/BBC level.

So, at best, in total, there are 8/9 possibles from that list (without Physics). Not even factoring in location.

And, we are getting ahead slightly as DC doesn't have predictions.
Obv, may be aspiring to 3 AStars, but if AAA, then Imperial is out. And, as you say, even with AStar,AA DC may not get an offer (as most will have Physics and/or FM).

@stubiff That’s why I’m querying engineering. Schools know engineers need Physics and most engineers don’t dislike Physics. It’s a core subject for Engineering. Except materials and chemical engineering. It’s therefore inevitable choice is limited with chemistry. Civil and mechanical engineering are really not suitable without Physics. So looks like less choice. Product Design - lots of choice!

I imagine school could have DD until 19 to do Physics. Or a tutorial college with labs? If it must be engineering.

I’ve also said repeatedly that any suggestion of Imperial isn’t sensible. We don’t know grades but no FM is difficult if considering Imperial. For Engineering the mantra beloved of MN “do what you are good at” doesn’t work. “Do what you need” might be better advice. Generally that’s Physics and Maths. FM if aiming high.

My son graduated from Nottingham Trent (admittedly 10 years go so things may have changed a bit since then.) Chose the BSc in product design - really enjoyed it - fantastic workshop facilities, the option of a sandwich year at year three to work in industry (which was a great experience of designing in the real world, and came away with a patent in his name).
At the time it was in the list of top 5 universities for students finding work immediately after graduation, in their chosen field.
He has always worked in the area of factory systems and also aquaponic growing design. If his maths had been stronger, would definitely gone down the straight engineering route, but this is more or less what he does now but with a different degree.

Thank you. I had another chat to DD and she said she definitely wants to do Design Engineering and no product design only, at a top 10 or 20 university. I don’t see a lot of options without further maths or physics.

IC: she can apply, she will gain some experience with trying at least.

Bath: needs physics for Integrated Design Engineering

Strathclyde: needs physics for Product design engineering

Loughborough: This is where she has more chances for product design engineering. No physics required.

Bristol: Has an Engineering Design degree but the content mentions civil engineering and refers a lot to mechanics too so it is confusing.

Liverpool: Has product design engineering; but haven’t heard this university mentioned much.

So basically one university and growing up in London I think she may find Loughborough very quiet. She found Cambridge quiet when we went for a bike ride on a Sunday and it was full of people.

Hi OP Liverpool is a great uni and RG I think - big city vibe too and lots going on. Not far from Manchester and easy on the train if that's a better venue for gigs of other events.

Loughborough - I mean it's a big town, not a city at all. It's pretty lively in term time tho as the uni is big and bc of he location, a lot is centred on it in terms of activity. Sports, yes, but not just sports. My ds is there and has made loads of friends and done lots of stuff. I guess it depends where her interests lie - is she sporty, does she do music, like acting? These are the kinds of things that will be happening within a uni campus, which might make up for it not being a big city.

I agree on Cambridge btw - not a big city feel at all. She needs to think about what is important - the course content or the three years in the city/town. Tbh coming from London anywhere will be smaller!

The course content and career prospects is definitely more important; as you said anywhere is going to feel small compared to London and there will always be a compromise on something: course, location, accommodation, etc.

So then Liverpool and Loughborough both sound a tho they would be good options. Plenty of time to go and see them before applying.

I can really recommend Lboro btw and I am not alone - it rates very highly for student satisfaction and I know lots of people who went there who reacll their time there fondly. It's not a big city tho. The nearest cities are Leicester and Nottingham. It depends what you want from a city! but neither of those is especially big on the gig circuit, for example. OTOH they both have a flourishing theatre offer and decent shops.

Two unis isn’t a great choice. Bristol is quite clear that there are specialist choices from y2 onwards. They are more traditional routes though. It’s a build your own syllabus really. I do rather share the view that Physics opens doors. FM is not taken by everyone but an application to Imperial and a few others would be pointless without it.

Agree; however up to a couple of weeks ago she has been very uncertain about what caree she wants to do; changing her mind often.

She did Design Engineering for GCSES as she attended a private school from year 7 to 11. This has always been her favourite subject.

She told me she wants to do a career she enjoys and is passionate about it which I agree.

We are going to see some universities, apply and if she is not happy with what she gets she will have to take a gap year to do physics at a tutorial college and work. She is summer born. I think is important she is happy with her degree and university choice.

That’s interesting about the GCSE. DH did engineering A level decades ago. Back then it was brilliant prep for an engineering degree. Was it not available at A level?

The engineering facilities at Liverpool are very good. And the city is a great place to live as a student.

Not sure if it’s already been mentioned, but university of Birmingham offers Mechanical Engineering without physics. They also offer a degree where you study a broad first year engineering course and then choose which direction to go

She moved to state school for Sixth Form which only offers DT; also she said her previous school is not doing Design Engineering for A levels and moved back to DT as noone got a 9 in GCSE, she got an 8. she did DT from year 7 to year 9 and DE in year 10 & 11.

Thank you. Design Engineering seems broader but not a lot of universities offer it; not sure she wants to do mechanics only. Will ask her to check out Birmigham degrees though.

I can only see Bath & IC that offer Design Engineering; however there are a few more choices for Product Design Engineering which is only about product Design.

Will definitely go and see it. Thank you

Apologies for reactivating this thread. We are looking at Nottingham course. Product Design and Manufacture but we can’t see if the course is accredited or the entry requirements for the 4 year course.

Is nottingham a good university with industrial links? Doesn’t seem to have a year in industry?

It doesn’t look like the Product Design Engineering has any accreditations at Liverpool university.