Univeristy Application Advice

[Teasmaid1]

DD applied last year for a particular course at Uni and got 4 offers. She accepted Manchester ( her def fave) and Cardiff.
However she changed her mind about the course she wanted to do but Manchester we’re oversubscribed for the new course and couldn’t fit her in- even tried on results day. Rather than go elsewhere she decided to have a gap year and reapply for 2024
She has AAA which is what is required
she is about to apply again and is still desperate for Manchester
Obviously I’m worried that if she gets a rejection she will be devastated and will feel she has wasted the year.

I am wondering if it’s worth a direct message from her to the admissions team in this department saying how much she wants to come and that she has taken a gap year just so she can come to Manchester and this course? And that she would firm an offer immediately if they made one. They may actually remember her from earlier messages when she was trying to change into this department from her other course - can’t work out if that’s a positive or negative!

any advice welcome!!

Interestingly the knowledgable poetryandwine posted a similar suggestion on another thread about PQA (post qual application), so it might be a shout.

What is the course if you are happy to say? Just if it is not a super competitive one then I would expect it to be fine. Manchester not especially known for being late with replies I don't think?

Thanks for the response. It’s Economics! So yes super competitive- but maybe not quite so much at Manchester as at LSE etc!

Ah OK hmmm yes that is the one. Well as I posted on the other thread, a friend's ds applied with A star AA for econ at LSE, UCL, Imperial (I mean FGS) Leeds and Nottingham, friend was dismayed and shocked that he only got offer from Nottingham. HOWEVER I have no idea (obvs) about his reference, GCSE grades, PS etc. Actually I do know his PS will have been a bit pants as she was moaning he wouldn;t write it, couldn't get started etc. So if your DD makes sure everything in her application is tiptop that would be good. HAs she been doing anything in the last month or so that would feed into that? Or can she in the next month or two? Not my area but even reading, attending virtual or actual events would be good.

No I don't think contacting the admissions team is a good idea. Surely many students really want this course and have Manchester as their number one choice - and there is a process already in place!
She needs to make herself as attractive a candidate as possible, and this gap year must be used for this. What can she do to show her dedication to the subject? That will make her stand out.

Extra questions would be what did she initially apply for and get offers for, and at what grades, and which subjects does she have her three A's in?

Her subjects were Maths, Chemistry and History
narrowly missed A star in maths. A star also in EPQ
gap year 2will be spent working for couple different companies - but quite large corporates and the job includes travelling and working on large events. Don’t want to say too much more as all quite outing! Will have to see how can link that to Economics!

It’s difficult with Economics as they know they will have lots of excellent applicants and can wait. If your DD had 3 A star they might offer immediately, but it’s possible they might be able to make whatever quantity of offers they need to make to students from your DDs type of school without going to the AAA level and can make enough offers to include all people who are predicted at least one A star. Realistically, why would they make the Jeffrey to your DD now and before most applicants are in, when there might be better applicants?

Sorry, it’s not what you want to hear. That said, she has her grades in hand and if she is a definite would accept candidate, they might be prepared to give an offer to have a certain bum on seat who is of a good standard.

Personally, I’d send the email. I don’t think you can lose. If they simply bin it and aren’t prepared to take any notice of it, then fair enough and you’re. O worse off. You might just gain from it.

I’d emphasise that she had an offer for whatever course and met it but only turned it down because she had decided to change course. Mention she called on results day to try and swap and places weren’t available. Mention that rather than take a place through Clearing for Economic somewhere else, because she lovesManchester so much she decided to take a year out and reapply. Be clear she is doing something useful and relevant with the year. Say she will firm immediately she receives an offer.

Look carefully into who that email should go to - possibly more than one person.

Yes, it’s a bit of an attempt to circumvent the system. Yes, they can bin the message if they wish and take zero notice of it. But also yes, it could pay dividends and there doesn’t seem much to lose. They will decide if they’d rather wait and see if enough candidates with A star predictions appear or if they want to fill a. Place with someone with AAA. We don’t know for sure how many if any people who arrive actually have AAA or if they usually make many/any offers to those with the minimum requirement.

Is it a factor that she didn’t do FM and doesn’t have an A star in Maths? I don’t know? Some Econ courses require FM and really do want top grades in Maths. I don’t know about Manchester.

If they are asking for 3 A's this year, then she has an excellent chance at getting her place. She has already got the grades so it is hopeful that she will get an offer over the new students who haven't sat the exams yet. Just make sure she has a great letter and list her experience for the last few months and that her tutor/teacher still remembers her from last year and can write a good reference. Fingers crossed.

Can we also ask what she was predicted in her first round of applications? Interesting to know if she achieved what she was predicted or over or under performed?

Most students underperform in relation to their PG. Most are in a stronger position applying pre-A Level than post A Level because their actual grades are lower than their PG. of course Unis know this when offering and either significantly over -offer knowing loads won’t firm and lots won’t meet the offer, or actually expect to accept people who don’t quite meet the offer anyway,

Im not quite clear if she decided to reapply purely because she changed her mind about course, or if it was because she did better than expected and so wanted something more aspirational.

Generally in stronger position when applying grades in hands providing they are the grades required in the right subjects. Basically is like “Betting on a sure thing”. Obviously needs good references and PS too!

I would contact them asap as they may have had someone drop out. I actually know that they offered someone a place on the Economics course at Manchester very late this year.

Speak to them and then send an email as required. No harm in asking and I know several students that were offered places on other courses even as late as last week after ringing the universities.

Hope it all goes well!

@clary, thank you - you are very kind.

I agree with her and other PPs this is another case where a certain type of brief message may help and couldn’t hurt. (That isn’t always true. The other case @clary refers to concerns truly exceptional circumstances). The reason here is that DD had met the offer and then some with the A star at EPQ. She is appropriate by definition.

I don’t think it’s helpful to stress how much she wants to come; that’s asking the admissions team to react to subjective factors. Stating that she would immediately Firm upon being accepted is very different: it is a factual way of showing her enthusiasm that is helpful to the admissions team. I think saying she felt it was worth the risk of reapplying to this programme is possibly okay. But what do you expect a tutor to do with the information? I would feel sympathetic, but obliged to ignore it. So it is safer to omit this from the email.

It looks like Manchester Economics pay attention to the PS and the referee letter. DD should briefly discuss what she is learning from gap year experiences and how this ties to the degree programme in the PS.

She can’t focus completely on this one programme at Manchester; the PS needs to be suitable for 5 applications because she is taking a risk.

I agree with @WombatChocolate that there is a possibilty they will put DD off until they see how many applications they are getting from those predicted 3 A stars. It’s frustrating, because not many of those are likely to end up in a School making a 3 A offer. I hope this works out, and quickly.

@Teasmaid1 have you or your DD looked whatdotheyknow.com? You might be able to look at prior FOI requests to see the likelihood of her being accepted on the course with those subjects/grades. Or put in a request of your own? It might help crystallise her chances.

Thanks for all your messages - really helpful
she was predicted 3 x A star - got 5 points short in Maths and similar in chemistry. She was gutted. Interestingly the sixth form as a whole did under the National Average which is v unusual for them. This fact actually puts them on lists that in some places ( Bristol for eg) would mean they could get a contextual offer - but for Manchester although this criteria ticks the box, our postcode and gcse school doesn’t tick the right box so overall no contextual can be applied. ( by the way do universities see it could potentially be a contextual offer or do you somehow highlight that your school underperformed in your personal statement?)
@poetryandwine what do you mean when you mention you think it’s ok for her to mention ‘worth the risk reapplying to the programme’ ? Not sure I got that part!
Cant believe The stress has already started!

Ooh dear- just noticed my typo in title
Good job I’m not the one applying!

I mean that acceptance isn’t guaranteed. Declining the other programme last year was worth the risk of reapplying, because DD is so keen on this particular programme.

On another thread yesterday or today someone was rejected very late from Bristol with a PQA, having the required grades of AAA. The rejection was inexcusably late in my view. One can only think that Bristol felt secure pursuing only candidates with higher PGs. (PGs are so inaccurate that I also think this was a mistake, but that is a different issue) So yes, there is a risk. I hope Manchester are more sensible.

PS you don’t need to highlight the under performing aspect of the school unless things have changed since I did admissions, but it couldn’t hurt to check.

PPS I did say perhaps it is safer to omit the risk bit!

Thanks @poetryandwine and everyone else

will just have to be fingers crossed I think!
I think she’d like Bristol - and although they say most of their Economics get a star , maybe worth emailing them to see if they would consider a contextual offer as she meets their criteria. Don’t want to waste a place if they still really only want a star people.

And don't forget for any course where Maths is a key component, she will need to demonstrate what she is doing to keep her maths up. Universities tend to be concerned that after a gap year, students will have forgotten a lot of their maths so won't be starting from the right Maths baseline (especially as she missed the A star for maths, and didn't do FM)

Not really true, the first year of any natural science course is mainly dedicated to getting everyone on the same page as people are coming from different systems with different standards and syllabuses.

But she wants to study Economics?

think the argument still stands - that’s why 1st year results only contribute very little to final grade (usually 5% or less)

Yeps this is my understanding too from numerous posts on these boards.

Makes sense tbh; I would say similar for MFL. Thing is with MFL tho it's fairly easy to work on in a gap year - spend time living and working or studying in a country that speaks the language - in fact that's a really good thing.

Agree with maths yy it's really key, esp as she doesn't have FM. Presume Mamchester don't ask for it? Might be worth finding out what proportion if econ students there have it tho.