Tell me about Durham

[Durhamm]

DD has Durham on her list of potential unis but she has never been, can't make the open day and it's a long way for us to visit.

She is looking at one of the joint hons degrees via nat sci.

As far as I can see, lots of people like it for the college system and the formals, but DD isn't bothered one way or the other about those. So what else is good / bad about Durham? A family member went there and didn't have a great experience but we'd like a second opinion and I know there are many Durhamites here.

She wants self catering accommodation, great teaching, to be challenged academically, a diverse and interesting bunch of people to meet, lots of fun things to do when not studying. She is not particularly into team sports, but likes music, going to gigs, cycling, green spaces. Space generally would be good - she found Bristol a bit crowded and much preferred the vibe of the campuses at Birmingham and Nottingham.

Please tell me everything you know, good or bad! Does Durham have lots of other positives apart from the college system, living in a castle and the formals?

DD went in 2019 and graduated last year . She loved it despite Covid. She was in Collingwood college so not living in a castle. It had great facilities but rooms/ bathroom situation wasn’t great. 1 bathroom between 10 and 2 separate toilets with no sinks, just hand gel.
Apart from that she had good fun, was NOT a private school educated child and made loads of friends. It was expensive as catered and the formals and things were not cheap(£60 a ticket plus outfits etc) but it’s a pretty city and felt safe as it’s so small. Shops not great, only a small expensive Tesco Metro in town.

My granddaughter has just graduated from Durham, it's a lovely place. She enjoyed it and made new friends, graduated with English Literature 1st class with honours. 1st in the family to go

Yes that was another negative for my dd. A former grammar sixth form student spoke to them and she’d dropped out yr1 Durham as she’d been mocked for northern accent and had felt unsafe (rugby males trying to break in her room) she’d successfully restarted another uni year later. This is within last 3 years not a historical tale.

But all the people I know who dropped out did drop out because of feeling bullied or othered, or not being able to afford the accommodation, and it's quite a lot of people.

Our family member didn't drop out but says she wishes she had. She is from the NE and felt out of place and like she didn't belong at Durham, too northern, too poor and too thick was how she put it! I think it was a bit of a shock because it's pretty local for her and she got a 2:1 despite it all, so not thick.

I would say you need to visit. My dd didn’t really think it was her thing until she visited (we only went as we were dropping ds off at Manchester and so part way there - note it is a horrid drive from Manchester to Durham).

Anyway she loved both the Uni and department (Sociology) and is moving in next week. She is in a Bailey college, shared room which she is really excited about. She’s from a state school.

She applied I think late October and was offered early ish January.

Durhams admin (in our experience) is shockingly poor until you have been confirmed into a college. Once this happens pretty much everything comes via the college who have been amazing!

I would say the colleges are way more than a hall of residence. Yes no teaching happens there but everything else does. Each college organised their own freshers week activities and it all happens within college. In her college (so I presume all) there are all sorts of music ensembles (some auditioned some not), drama, sports, societies. This give’s opportunity for participation to those who wouldn’t make a Uni team for instance. Each college also has its own balls, college days etc so they have quite distinct identities. She has been allocated a (non academic) college tutor also plus the college chaplain seems very involved with welfare (in a non denominational way). It is very different from a Hall of residence. Her college has 134 1st years living in (most in shared rooms) so it is a small community - other years also live in.

Newcastle is very close (15 mins on the train) but I guess you don’t choose Durham if you want a big city.

Yes there are a lot of privately educated people and southerners (we are from the south) but it was the same in my ds’s hall at Manchester and I think it’s the same in all RG unis.

My eldest child would have hated Durham and my dd would have hated Manchester but they are both great cities and great universities- different people like different things.

I think of all the unis we visited Durham is the one you really do need to visit as it was only when we were there that dd got a feel for it which had been different from her preconceptions.

Anyway she moves in a week tomorrow and am happy to answer any questions when she’s in. As a note this thread seems to have attracted a lot of negative opinions - and of course these opinions are valid - but I do believe Durham has changed in recent years and there are many dc and parents in MN who are more then delighted with the university.

Thanks @KittyMcKitty it's good to hear more positive impressions. DD only has one definite choice at the moment with more open days lined up, so will keep Durham on the back burner in case the others don't appeal.

Regardless of the ins and outs of demographics and inclusivity, I think the small size and long distance (6+ hrs) will inevitably push it down the list though.

Unfortunately her one definite so far is Oxford so she needs to find some others she likes sharpish!

I went to Durham in the open day and we both loved it. DD had an interview at Oxford but didn’t make it. I think she wouldn’t have had as much fun there. She’s a party girl . Have to say she had no trouble being from a normal family and having been to state schools. The friends she made were a mixture of state and private school and she lives with 3 of them now. They all got great jobs and moved to London.

it did feel quite small though

Absolutely!. Now whilst I actually like Durham, were it not for the fact that it is home to a cathedral the word "city" would never be used in conjunction with it. Durham is a relatively small provincial town, population about 60,000, so similar to Loughborough. It is not in any way, shape or form a city in the size and scale sense of the word, and to suggest otherwise would be ludicrous. The Consett-Durham-Stanley tri-city area is really not a thing 😀

Its smallness will be a real issue for some; whilst for others its part of the attraction. Nothing wrong with either view.

Durham is a relatively small provincial town, population about 60,000, so similar to Loughborough.

Is it not a bit smaller than that? The uni says 43k.

I haven't been to Durham but Loughborough doesn't feel particularly small to me, I wouldn't expect a town of that size to be described as small by so many people!

I went to Durham as a post grad in the early 90s, but wasn’t part of the college system (Graduate Society) so can’t comment much on that. I liked the small cathedral city feel, social life was generally in a couple of pubs, Castle bar(so cheap - but mainly because the pretty girls working the bar obviously weren’t maths students!) and there was the infamous Klute, otherwise you jumped on the train to Newcastle for a Bigg night out. There was still the town and gown vibe, and certainly a lot of wealthy students around (but easily avoided).

Lived out in Gilesgate and liked it enough to stay to work for a few years and bought my first house there. My course was based in the science and engineering campus, which was pretty modern (as far as I remember).

Went to Birmingham as an undergrad, definitely quite a different experience. I liked the campus and the Vale accommodation meant that most first years were generally in the same area (I had a 20 minute walk into campus). In 2nd and 3rd years lived out in Bearwood and Kings Heath (25 minute bike ride), lots of students opted for Selly Oak as it’s on the doorstep, but had friends in Moseley, Balsall Heath etc. I liked that the campus seems like a small town but you have a big city on the doorstep.

Dd is in her 2nd year at Durham doing History.

We are very working class, state educated from not a brilliant area.

Positives
The 1st years seem to be very 'looked after' by the rest of their college. Dd is in St Johns college.
The formals are a fab experience.
Durham feels a very safe place compared to some of the bigger city centre campus's.
Everyone seems to know everyone.

Negatives
Cost. Dds room in a shared house is £184 pw for 52 weeks. The formals have a cost, formal wear and they also cost to attend.
Dd hasn't had 1st choice for any of her modules.
She has struggled with her health, physical and mental and the support wasn't great. Shes doing much better mentally now and we are slowly getting to the bottom of her physical issues.

Overall its been a positive experience for her, and she's very happy to be back for her 2nd year. She would chose a different course if she had a 2nd chance tho, but that's not Durhams fault.

Oh and re the rich/poor divide she says its really noticeable at the start of the year. Dd has to work part time, whereas the majority don't. But she says that most people are nice, she hasn't been embarrassed by her lack of wealth and has new friends from all kinds of backgrounds and doesn't really notice the differences at all now. They are all in the same pubs and clubs, all doing the same work and all having similar experiences.

DD’s best friend is going into her third year and she’s hated her time there. She’s quite quirky and sporty but hasn’t found her people there. Says she can’t bear all the public school kids who she finds very immature and overbearing. It’s a great shame as she’s very sociable but has found socialising there quite boring, and tends to visit her brother, who’s at Edinburgh, for her social life.
She’s already decided she’s going to do the Masters part of her course elsewhere and can’t wait to get out.

Doesn’t sound right for her to me. No proper gigs for starters.

Ds currently there
Lived on the Bailey in first year.

Ds is from a poorly performing state school and is northern

He had a surprising amount of “ which school did you go to ” questions in freshers week / first year and he was quite put off by it.
He realised that a lot of students at his college seemed to know of each others private schools in the south and made conversations about them and connected quickly through these conversations. Understandable I guess- it’s like a ready made network when there are lots of you from the same area of the country. He said that when some of these same people realised that the person they were speaking to wasn’t from a school that they had heard of, he watched them lose interest quickly and move on to someone else.

He thinks some of the hill colleges are more friendly and less cliquey than his bailey college

I’d be interested to know what the comprehensive school stat is.

That said- he has found his small group of people.
It’s a beautiful city. He finds the local people really friendly and says that actually it’s one of the best bits about the city- how nice and friendly Co Durham people are. The surrounding countryside and coastline is lovely
Newcastle is a great city and so close so they all go there a lot

University communication is appalling imo and he hasn’t been impressed with the teaching either

If he had his time over knowing what he knows now, he says he would have gone elsewhere

I’d be interested to know what the comprehensive school stat is.

@Catstare just shy of 50% non-selective state, then just over 12% state grammar and the rest indie. That's for undergrads overall - whether there is a marked difference again between the Bailey and Hill colleges I don't know.

If he had his time over knowing what he knows now, he says he would have gone elsewhere

that's a sad thing to read, and a tough one to have to post. Hope his remaining time there is a better experience for him.

My DS is off to Stephenson College next Saturday, he's so excited about going to study at Durham - they are the only English Uni that offers the joint hons he wanted to study so it was a course-based choice. However, I think the college system will be right up his street ( he has ASC so the smaller community within the greater Uni community will be great for him).
The faculty for his subjects is so impressive, all engaged in research projects around the world. We are state school people, not wealthy. We live around lots of very wealthy people in our part of the south east so public school kids are nothing new to us but we have rubbed along just fine with the vast majority of people we come across. I'm sure he will continue to do so, regardless of his peers' privilege status.
Just like schools, it's a case of right placement for the individual.

He realised that a lot of students at his college seemed to know of each others private schools in the south and made conversations about them and connected quickly through these conversations. Understandable I guess

I think it's definitely an initial talking point but more as it's an easy conversation starter when you first meet people. But I don't think people made friends on that basis. In our group, there were boys from Charterhouse and Harrow and others from their local comprehensive.

Perhaps certain shared interests come back to that indirectly. My group of friends are rugby mad which possibly attracts a higher proportion of people who've played it at independent schools. Although our school match yesterday was against our local grammar school.

Durham also attracts rugby players as it's one of the stronger rugby unis, also offers college rugby, is near a premiership rugby club and has a few England captains among its alumni. Loughborough, Exeter, Edinburgh and Bath are also in that group.

He realised that a lot of students at his college seemed to know of each others private schools in the south and made conversations about them and connected quickly through these conversations. Understandable I guess- it’s like a ready made network when there are lots of you from the same area of the country. He said that when some of these same people realised that the person they were speaking to wasn’t from a school that they had heard of, he watched them lose interest quickly and move on to someone else.

I actually watched this happen to a friend at university when I went. It is a thing that does definitely happen. I didn't go to Durham, mind, but York. In those days , people from those exclusive schools all congregated in certain degree subjects and pretty much at one college ( I don't think that's the case any more) and were not there in such high numbers. These other students didn't mock my friend and I never heard of the humiliation rituals attached with stories from Durham .They asked her her school because she mentioned St George's , and then turned their back when they realised it was a different St George's.It was one of the rudest things I have ever seen. Unbeknownst to them my friend's school was actually one of the most expensive public schools in Edinburgh, ironically. It really was a clan, and I can see in large numbers it could be quite overbearing. I think it most cases it wears off though - people don't know each other when they start uni - so conversation topics centre around school, results, holidays. etc. I remember everyone banging on about gap years and I didn't even know what they meant!

Thank you @boys3.

My DD is about to go into her second year at Durham and couldn't be happier. Her college is St John's, on the Bailey. She doesn't recognise the negative experience of some people on this thread. This is only a sample of 1 and for full disclosure she is from the SE and went to an Indi, but in her close group of 6 (living together this year) there are 2/6 from Indis, 4/6 state. She only knows this because it came up in the first few days of finding out about each other, but said it made absolutely zero difference to whether they became friends - she only recalled the conversation when I asked her out of curiosity after reading this thread. 3/6 from the NE, 2/6 from the SE, 1 from the SW and 1 from the Midlands. She hasn't been aware of any 'Town and Gown' sentiment (unlike my own experience at York in the early 90s).

The college system is so much more than Halls, it is really more like a family especially in the small colleges, and her social life and activities are college based (college bar, common room, clubs and societies, the garden in the summer) whereas my DS had none of this available in halls at a different uni. Some might find this claustrophobic but it is perfect for her. She is living out this year but will frequently be back at college as she is on the peer support (welfare) team, and on the exec of a couple of the societies. She isn't a big fan of clubbing so there is more than enough in Durham for her, and lots of uni bands if people want to go to gigs, but it doesn't have the same scene as bigger places for sure.

Academically some of the courses are world class. It’s one of the least diverse universities though and I came to the conclusion I would have found living in such a small city stifling (I realise that’s personal preference though) so ultimately rejected my offer.

I'm from Durham but didn't go to uni there so can't comment on the facilities.

It's a very small (hilly and cold) city surrounded by a lot of poverty (ex mining villages) although the centre is picturesque and there's some beautiful countryside within driving distance. Rentals are pretty expensive in the city centre.

Ime the locals and students don't integrate at all and there's a lot of resentment about students taking over the city. (Students used to get egged a lot when I was a kid but hopefully not any more?

The nightlife is shit, you'd need to get the train into Newcastle for decent gigs and clubs.

Depending on where you live; with trains and petrol being so expensive it might be difficult to get home often.

We went yesterday. It felt very white middle class, old school boarding school. It seemed like everything was in the college but DD would be at the uni a lot (labs) and there wasn't much down there if you were there for the day. We found out more about the balls and gyms than we did about the actual course. The staff didn't seem to be making much effort with "selling" the courses - almost an arrogance that everyone will want to come anyway.

The point about it being surrounded by poverty is actually quite an interesting one. There is something quite offensive about a university being stuffed with privileged students in an area of deprivation. That doesn’t sit very well with me but I’m sure the London private school mums who were crawling about the place when we went for the open day don’t give the tiniest of shits about it .