A-level choices to keep options open

[stubiff]

My DS (literally) has no idea want he’d like to do for A-levels or beyond. Only given is not English Language.
He doesn’t really have a favourite subject(s) or passion.
He is probably around the GCSE 7 (poss some 8’s) mark, ability-wise, fairly consistent across the subjects.

So, he’ll probably be looking at choices to keep his future options as open as possible.

Please could you recommend some combos using the following groups:

1. Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Psychology, Computer Science
2. Business Studies, Economics, English Lit, History, Politics, Religious Studies, Spanish, Classics
3. Drama, Design & Technology, Physical Education

Some rules:
Please could you provide some rationale for the combo(s), especially if you break the rules (which I’m sure some will!).
Min 1, max 2 from group 1.
Min 1, max 2 from group 2.
Min 0, max 1 from group 3.
If you suggest a Maths combo, please could you also suggest a non-Maths one.
English Lang will not be chosen.
Biology, Geography and any subject not mentioned will not be chosen, either because it is not available or wasn’t chosen at GCSE.

Appreciate it is a wide/varied ask, but thank you very much, in anticipation.

@Needmorelego
Think his ideal job would be something at Real Madrid or Barcelona!

@TizerorFizz
A-level subjects only available at the college are Accounting, Geology, Law, Engineering, Media Studies, Film Studies, Sociology and Financial Studies.
Pretty sure he won't jump for any of them.

Think the only chance of him going to college would be for a BTEC or T-Level.
Latter is not widely accepted by Unis yet, so that puts me off.
BTEC is, so a possible for the right subject.

The devil we/he knows is great at the moment.

@stubiff I think some areas have colleges which are broad 6th form colleges offering most post 16 qualifications. Lots of colleges are FE but without A levels because these are mostly offered by school 6th forms. So no big market for them. School is the best option, definitely.

Sorry, if there was confusion.
A-levels mentioned above are the ones at college that he couldn't take at school.
College also offer all the usual A-levels, they have a broad range. It's also a University Centre.

Edit: there are quite a few schools in the area which don't have sixth forms.

Is the primary school crush on Math-ilda over?
Does Elise Espana woo BillyBob with her dulcet tones?
Is high-maintenance Hattie History-onics (see what I did there!) up to her old tricks?
Will the boy ever be a (3)1-woman man, or is it once a player always a player?
Find out these, and more, on the latest episode of How The Chuff Do I Pick My A-levels.

Sorry, got carried away there.

So, had a few more (brief) discussions (treading lightly).
In terms of current GCSE subjects, the preference is for Spanish, History, Maths, in that order, with other subjects not too far behind, except Eng Lang which is bottom.

UCAS career quiz was done. Can recommend as it’s fairly quick to do. Can also recommend the UCAS Account/Hub to get ideas, set favourites (or in this case possibles). Rule stuff out by taking a pic of the item.
Top match for pathway (related careers) is Architecture & Planning.

There are higher % matches of individual careers, including Solicitor, Finance/Investment Analyst, Manager/Director (may need an industry first), Electronic Engineer and Actuary.

Other matching pathways are Business Management, Law, Sales & Marketing, and IT.

Ruled some other pathways out – Agriculture, Horticulture & Animal Care, Education & Training, and Health & Care.

Next steps - conv to be had re new subjects (at A-level), start ruling out UCAS ‘subjects’ (there are 61 of them), e.g. medicine, zoology, nursing, education, etc.

Also, doesn’t want to go to college to do a narrower subject, e.g. Games Development.

I think it may boil down to whether to include Maths or not.

Here's one for you...
Possible subjects/careers are Law, Sports Science, Finance, Business, Accounting, Engineering, IT, Architecture, but no real idea.

If you were capable of AAA excluding Maths, or AAC with the C in Maths, would you take Maths at A-level?
Same for B in Maths or D in Maths.

Depends what kind of uni they are aiming for if that matters. Lots of RGs won’t accept Cs.

But then lots of accounting and finance degrees they want Maths. If the other subjects then I’d bin Maths for sure.

They will have many more options with AAA.

I think if I were confident of the B in maths I might do it, if I liked maths, but not for a C or D if I could get As in all the other subjects.

Maybe if a B was guaranteed, but most of the career paths or degrees that want Maths A Level will want an A or A*.

Most accounting degrees don’t need a level maths.

Engineering requires maths. So that would be out. Law doesn’t. The other subjects are enhanced by maths. Why so many mathsy careers if Dc doesn’t like maths? Or can do well in maths. Lots of grad jobs don’t require specific degrees. History grads, for example, can access many careers.

@TizerorFizz Have not said that he doesn’t like Maths, the opposite in fact.
As per above it’s 3rd on his current subjects list.

I may be doing him a disservice by saying a C in Maths, just basing it on comments that it’s hard.
He is probably capable of higher in other subjects even if they are slightly lower on his like list.
A lot, the majority?, say do what you enjoy.

@stubiff
I think he really needs to look in depth at careers. (I know: it’s difficult!) Really look at detail and decide if you really want to be in an office, or get out and about and whether maths matters or not. I would suggest for management/finance degrees he would be disadvantaged without it. You need to satisfy yourself if a B is good enough for possible courses. Certainly for some it would be.

Law and Engineering have significant differences. DD is a lawyer, DH is an Engineer. DH does expert witness work so has found a cross over! Maths matters for one but not the other. Reading in depth, analytical and writing skills matter more for law but engineers analyse and solve problems too but obviously their training is very different, and you cannot do it without maths. There are Engineering courses where a B in maths is ok. For a law degree, there’s more competition but a wider choice of A level subjects. However some subjects are better prep than others. As you don’t need a law degree to do law, any academic degree (more or less) is ok. Again though, some degrees and unis are better than others!

I think there are dangers in doing purely the subjects you like if they don’t gel. Eg for Engineering, maths and physics is nearly always required. There needs to be some coherence to the choices. Clearly it’s useful to have a goal. The dreaded list produced by Trinity College Cambridge on preferred subject combinations should not be ignored by DC who want the best outcome for UCAS applications and obviously this applies to more universities than Oxbridge! Some A level combinations are best prep for competitive degrees anywhere!

DS was unsure about what he wanted to do. He was good at Maths, so did this with physics and history. He then did an apprenticeship as he was very anti uni, but through work, he's now doing a Civil Engineering degree - all paid for!
Can I ask why he's wanting to stay at the school 6th form? Specialist 6th form colleges often have a better range of subjects (and better teachers for A levels) If he wants to stay because of friends, you'll find a lot move about for 6th form.

Maths is highly desirable and useful for lots of future courses and careers. However, getting a good grade at A Level isn’t easy. Students starting A Level Maths with a 7 at GCSE and even an 8 often haven’t fully graded big proportions of the course, because quite low marks are needed for those grades. Most with a 7 won’t be able to achieve a B at A Level Maths. In fact, many with an 8 won’t be able to either.

It’s worth bearing in mind that Maths when you’re not genuinely good at it can be a miserable experience.

That said, I’ve known brilliant humanities students who weren’t great at Maths (Achieved 8s not 9s) could have achieved 3x Astar grades in humanities opt for 2 humanities and maths, knowing they would likely end up with 2Astar and B, because they felt simply having maths in their CV would help them later. They had to pick their unis very carefully for their humanities degrees though, because that predicted B wasn’t popular with some.

Someone starting a humanities A Level with a 7 is more able to access the subjects than someone with maths at 7 can access Maths. Someone with a 7 in a humanities GCSE might be able to reach a B more easily at A Level, than the person with a 7 in Maths trying to get to a B at A Level.

So whilst it’s easy for people to say ‘Do Maths, do maths’ and ‘Maths is the thing’ actually, unless you’re a top student in Maths (and I mean a 9 ideally and at very minimum a top 8) then actually you should think very carefully before doing it. And schools shouldn’t be letting those with a 6 do it. madness.

@TizerorFizz
it is difficult!
Will be trying to do exclusions as that’s the most we can do really. Once past school report, after half term, and past mocks then hopefully be able to exclude more, and start having narrower preferences.

Agree about the coherence of subjects.

@Thejackrussellsrule
Re sixth form, as mentioned before, he/we feel the current school is the best option (mainly because he is settled and it is good). I refer previously of people moving and it not working out and coming back. Mindful of that although small sample.
College has a few different subjects but not sure DS would choose any.
He wouldn’t go for a BTEC or narrower subject.

@WombatChocolate
Agree re the conversion from 7/8s to A levels.
School needs a 7 at GCSE to do Maths A level.

Maths, Physics and History could be a good combination, Maths at A level is a real step up, my DS got 8 in GCSE Maths, he got a B at A level. If he's interested in any career remotely Maths based, I'd definitely suggest doing it. DS said others on his Civil Engineering degree course have struggled without the knowledge. DD did a Geology degree, again, Maths A level really helped.

No one should attempt or be let onto a civil engineering degree without maths a level . It’s simply impossible. Such a leap
up would be required.

@stubiff Where I live the FE offering (college) is for Dc who really want vocational courses and maybe do one A level. Definitely best to stay put.

I think going through career ideas starting with what he is interested in is a start. Do buildings interest him? Can he draw? How is his 3D thinking? Useful for civil engineering too. What about landscape architecture or planning? Is he interested in how things work and how they can be improved? What management would he like? HR, marketing, finance? What does he know about business functions? There are in house lawyers for example. Does he read quickly and understand what he reads accurately? Does he have access to adults with varying careers? Talking about what might be available can clarify thoughts. Agree it’s hard though.

@TizerorFizz
He is doing DT (not Art) and can draw a bit, but not brilliant.
He doesn't know about business functions, or anything really. And he would say it's too early!
Have contacted the school and they do the Morrisby test in December, so will see what comes out of that, as it won't be me prompting him!
We have access to an Architect, Solicitor, Engineer, Accountant, and I work in IT, so got quite a few bases covered if he shows more interest in any of them.

@stubiff My DDs did Morrisby. It was accurate for one - surprisingly so. It might an idea to get the people you know to talk to him about their work. Obviously management functions in offices covers quite a lot but at least a bit of info on options might help. I’m quite good on civil/structural engineering as DH had a consultancy. Many of our friends are planners and some are landscape architects and surveyors. Lots of architects too! DH has worked with loads.

Neither of my DDs do anything we remotely knew about though. They had to be self starters. DD2 has got there in the end via a couple of false starts! Including wrong degree so I fully get it can be a long haul.

You asked about AAA no maths etc.
yes, I’d choose AAA no maths over AAC (C maths) as it’s VERY difficult to find unis with that type of AAC combo. Any that want maths are likely to want higher than a C. And if they don’t want maths what’s the point in taking it if likely to be a C, when an A in another subject is likely.

Given he’s still toying with the idea of maths A level it’d be worth talking to his teachers at where his maths strengths lie as I’m pretty sure that you need to be VERY strong with algebra for A level. Students can obtain grade 8 GCSE without being particularly strong in the aspects of maths needed for A level.

There has been a bit of chat on MN over the last couple of years regarding MFL and uni offers. For example courses that are say Politics will want higher grades than a course that is Politics with Spanish. As I say, it’s chat and none of mine are linguists so it’s not something we’ve explored.

If he’s currently liking the idea of Spanish and history, something that is considered numerical (but not maths) may be a good 3rd choice - so psychology, economics, etc
Some uni courses like a mix of essay and numerical subjects. (Business at Bath, for example). They consider both psychology and economics to straddle both camps.

@TizerorFizz Neither of my DDs do anything we remotely knew about though.
This is the thing! How can 15 year old kids decide their future career when we don’t even know those careers exist. It’s ok to have a false start, nothing is set in stone. We can step sideways or start again. Nothing’s really a mistake. I think it’s important to tell our children this. Otherwise it’s scary as hell thinking they need to choose something to last them 40 odd years!

Well I knew one career existed but how to do it? We had no idea. DD1 got herself organised though, dD2 never did do what her degree should have led to. Has career changed successfully but we paid a lot for that course.