Cambridge college choice - tactical

[eggsbenedict23]

Is there any point looking at admission statistics for Cambridge colleges to see where is more likely to get in?

Is it worth choosing colleges tactically or does the pooling system eliminate this need?

My idea is that for Economics Trinity and Kings would be very very popular choices.

I think when DD was applying for maths (two years ago) they had a good DoS for maths. DD didn't apply there but i remember this coming up. (She's now going into second year at another college).

Will you go to visit the college ahead of applying?

If worrying about proximity of college to buildings where maths is taught, also look at DAMP.

DD's first year lectures weren't in either though (were central) and everything else taught in college 🤷🏻‍♀️

Sorry - reference to DoS - I mean Director of Studies for Maths.

and DAMP - I mean DAMTP (sorry posting too early in morning without my reading glasses on).

Department of Applied Maths and Theoretical Physics

@SilkyStuff DD applied to Warwick Durham St Andrews and Manchester - admittedly for Maths and Physics / Maths and Theoretical Physics. Cambridge was Maths.

She didn't apply to Imperial due to London accommodation cost and wanting to be in a more course diverse environment (not just STEM).

However she did do all the MAT extra lessons in the autumn at school and I think could have sat MAT relatively easily in the autumn - she wasn't studying for STEP at that point as it's examined in summer at the same time as A levels. So she only started STEP prep on earnest after she had her Cambridge offer. I wanted to mention as if doing MAT and STEP is the only thing that would put your son off Imperial, then he might wish to rethink.

Of those that DD applied to, she had offers from all but I think as previous poster flagged - lowest offer was A* AA. So no wriggle if she had a bad A level run, or just wasn't lucky with her applications.I think she was lucky to get a full suite of offers - many of her peers at school with stellar grade predictions were not so lucky. So I think you need to be pretty confident on strength of application and likelihood of grades to not include more of a back up offer type place. Esp after this summer's results.

DD now in one of the central colleges, happy to share which one over DM but not on the thread. She is enjoying her time there and walks to all her lectures etc.

Yes, we have been to visit and he really liked Fitzwilliam.
I think the proximity to DAMP is also fine.

Thank you for this.
I would love for him to put imperial as one of the choices on UCAS form partly because we live in London and he could live at home (as well as being a great uni obviously).
I think what's putting him off is the time required right now to study for MAT when he's studying so hard on his remaining 3 A-level subjects plus STEP.
Are you suggesting that if he's already got an A* in maths, (and he has actually studied a lot of the Further Maths course already on his own), that he would have a good chance of getting a good enough score in MAT to get an offer from Imperial?
Or how much effort would he need to put into MAT on top of his other studies to get an offer (I know that's an impossible question!)
I guess it's a balancing act because you only have 5 options.
Cambridge is his number one choice but obviously is incredibly competitive.

It’s early in the morning for me, but I don’t understand.

DAMPT and DPMSS used to be next to each other on Mill Lane near the centre but AFAIK are now are on the same site, CMS, on Clarkson Road/Wilberforce Road, (Centre for Mathematical Statistics.)

Your DD’s first year lectures were in the centre of town, though? That’s very useful information. It makes sense when most colleges are in the centre.

BTW, if anyone is using Google Maps to work out distances to CMS, it doesn’t seem to know that there’s an entrance from Clarkson Road which can be much quicker, especially from the Grange Road colleges and Burrell’s Field.

@SilkyStuff It's worth him looking at the practice papers for MAT and then deciding. As I understand, it is relatively "easier" than STEP as taken earlier.

Not sure if it's still the same but a few years ago a friend's daughter sat the MAT for Oxford and her results were not great (could have been a bad day) however she had also applied to other Universities, I think Bath & Warwick, who had access to the MAT result so she didn't get offers from them...3 of her 5 choices gone. Luckily she was happy with her 2 offers but it emphasises the need to consider realistic back ups.

Wow @Livinghappy I hadn't considered that there might be potential negative consequences to just trying the MAT exam.
Bath & Warwick are two on my son's shortlist.

I wonder if a good MAT score is helpful for the Cambridge application. C doesn't ask MAT.

I personally doubt they take it into consideration.

I think Cambridge maths interview people with the 4A*s predicted. From then they'll interview people and give offers.

They'll whittle the numbers down mostly due to STEP

Cambridge typically offer about twice as many places for maths as they have spaces and then use STEP to cut it down (they set the STEP grade boundaries!) I don't think they would care too much if you had done MAT or not. Their standard offer is Astar, Astar, A and 1,1 in STEP. At the maths dept open day they claimed they interview 75-80% of applicants.

Maths lectures are in the centre of town for first year and I think for second year as well. The lecture halls they have at the maths dept are smaller so they use them in third year when the courses are optional and more specialised. They may do supervisions at the maths dept before then or they may be in college (or another college).

My son's at Churchill, just going into second year. STEM. He applied because there were many STEM students and a good percentage of state school students. He, and we, felt right at home the minute we stepped over the threshold. Friendly welcoming porters. Does not have an air of being snooty at all, which matters to some people. It did to my son. He came from a grammar. We are not posh and I don''t think he would have been happy to be surrounded by Tory rahs. He's been to a few formals but they are fairly informal. You don't have to wear a gown at Churchill but you do at some of other college formals. Some people don't like the architecture of it and are looking for a more Hogwarts-style experience but I have a real soft spot for it. THe one downside is that it's a bit out of the way from town if you're walking. Very quick 10 min bike ride though. DS is very happy there, totally thriving like I knew he would, and was lucky in the room ballot this year and got a new ensuite room with a double bed (handy for when his girlfriend from a central college stays over - more of a draw to go the distance to Churchill this year as she's been unlucky and has a single bed with a shared bathroom this year).

Having said that, I've been round a few of the central colleges and I love Downing and Emmanuel. Downing's grounds are absolutely gorgeous, so much space and greenery. Emmanuel is a bit smaller inside, it feels, but still beautiful with a lovely vibe - very sociable, my son tells me, who spends a lot of his time there (girlfriend's college). If I'd have been the Cambridge type I would have chosen to go to either of those.

Yeah, they're crafty. DS's offer was 3 A stars and an A. He did further maths. The A star was in further maths. I mean, obviously if you're going to get an A star in further maths you're going to ace the normal maths anyway, but they only wanted A for that. 🤔 So in reality they wanted 4 A stars.

Well, why would the staff judge you on your background? They only want to know if you're of an academic standard to be able to cope with the rigours of the course, and if you're willing to put the (frankly staggering, for some courses) amount of work in.

Colleges have alumni events all over the place so this was the Oxford one - they chose the sister college as the venue.

Ah ok thanks

I think Cambridge maths interview people with the 4As predicted*

Makes sense, but suspect they also interview those under widening access who don't have full house of A stars PG.

@IThinkIMadeItWorse

Maths lectures are in the centre of town for first year and I think for second year as well. The lecture halls they have at the maths dept are smaller so they use them in third year ….

Very helpful, thank you. The internet tells me that most of this year’s first and second year Maths lectures will be in the Babbage and Cockcroft lecture theatres on the New Museums site, which is very central indeed.

Less convenient for Fitzwilliam, but still not very far.

Sure will be fine, they are 6 days a week but last year were at 10 I think and some listen to them online

@SilkyStuff this is from Bath Uni

If you take the MAT or TMUA we will receive your score before making a decision on your application. If you perform well and are successful in gaining an offer, you will be made our alternative offer.
If you do not take MAT or TMUA (or if you do not perform as well) and are successful in gaining an offer, you will receive our typical offer and an alternative offer including STEP/AEA papers

So offer to include STEP if not MAT

Your DS and his girlfriend had the same setup that DH and I had! Although I sometimes made him come and share
my centrally located single bed Churchill definitely has good facilities - some
rooms with double beds, some of the shared bathrooms have bathtubs, I think all the kitchens have ovens and many of them have freezers. So a good option for students who like cooking, as some colleges just have hobs.

I’ve been looking at the acceptance rate for natural sciences which I believe is one of the bigger courses. Looking at total applications and offers there seem to be a wide gulf between colleges. For example some had an acceptance rate of over 35% while others were less than 20%. I thought pooling was supposed to make it far more consistent.
my child of course is keen on the college with an 18% acceptance rate. I appreciate some colleges might be less popular and so take the bulk of open or pooled offers but it’s still a concern of what to do

The admissions stats for Cambridge are hard to interpret. Open application/winter pool blur the numbers.

Plus year on year variations are enormous. You don't really see a college with 35% in the same subject for several years in a row for example.

The idea is that if you're good enough you'll get an offer. Colleges quite happily reject all their direct applicants and take someone from the pool if that means getting the right standard?

Pooling isn't supposed to make all colleges have the same % acceptance rate, it's designed to ensure that all colleges are accepting candidates of the same standard.

I really don't think you can game the system by choosing a college with good stats from last year. You have to go with the college you like.