Oxford- Physics how important are GCSE grades

[Cubic]

Hi, ds got his gcse results today. Mixture of 7's, 8's and 9's. I've read on MN that GCSE grades are looked at when applying to Oxford. Is this true and if so will he be at a disadvantage with these grades please? I've read all 9's are necessary or at least that is what I've taken from what I've seen.

Hello

Two things to consider really.

First: is physics relevant to what he wants to study at degree level? Obvs he might not really know yet. But eg if he wants to do a hard maths/STEM/medicine subject, evidence that he aced physics would be useful.

Second: for Oxford specifically, what matters is how you do at GCSEs compared to the average GCSE results in your school in your year. If the average attainment at your school is 4s & 5s and you got 7s and 8s, you're laughing. If the average attainment at your school is 7s and 8s and you got all 7s, you won't score so well. It won't knock you out of the running, but you'll have some catching up to do on other aspects.

So far Oxford have regarded 8s and 9s as the same when scoring GCSEs. (No guarantees this will be the case for ever of course.)

Finally, the best way to guarantee you don't get in is to not try! If he goes for a subject that has an entrance test (which lots of them do), knocking it out of the park on that goes a long way to getting an interview even if your GCSEs weren't great.

My older DS had 5x7s at GCSE (he got four 8s and 9s, including maths and physics) and got in for maths. Younger son got a 6 in engineering and is now off to Oxford to study... engineering! (Albeit with 8s and 9s for the rest of his GCSEs.)

Don't let anyone tell you you have to have all 8s and 9s. You absolutely don't.

Sorry, I think having read again your DS is interested in taking physics? I'd say ideally he'd have 8s or 9s in physics and maths. The rest is negotiable. And if he has a great score on the Physics Aptitude Test in autumn of Y12, they'll find it hard not to give him an interview even if he has a rogue 7. (Less than 7 at either maths or physics might possibly give them pause, but that's just my hunch.)

@PacificState thank you for your reply. It's really helpful. He will ofcourse have a back up plan but that is his aim. He did get 8's and 9's in maths and the sciences. So fingers crossed.

Thank you again, your replies are really appreciated.

Is the Physics Aptitude test in year 12? I thought these were at the start of year 13?

Excellent. He's done what he needs to do then! Good luck to him and congrats on his results.

Lots of useful resources out there for the PAT when he gets to that stage next year (my son sat the PAT because Oxford use it for engineering too.) Doing loads of past papers is the best way to get in gear for it 👍

Oh gosh sorry Joan you're right - autumn of Y13. Sorry for any heart attacks caused!

Thank you! Phew!

Only 25% of top 100 PAT scores were educated wholly in the uk in 2022. GCSEs were excluded. They say they want to consider GCSEs in 2023. Not sure if they did. Keble College published Department of Physics Report on admissions for 2022 and its easy to find.

Thank you x

The latest FOI request says only 2.4% of successful Physics applicants did not have FM. So he really must do FM.

@TizerorFizz thank you. Are you doing the FOI's yourself or are they available online somewhere please? Is that throughout all colleges please?

He wasn't going to do FM.

Interesting but could it be that those students who have FM are generally scoring higher on the PAT and/or in their Maths/Physics A-levels (not unreasonable to assume).

Asking as DC did not want to do FM (slightly compounded by Covid) but aced his GCSE Maths and got a high 9, together with a 9 in Physics.

@Cubic No not me. They are easy to find. To be blunt, FM is more or less vital. It’s so difficult to make yourself competitive without it. Plus you have the PAT test. If the school offers FM he should take it.

If he’s not keen on FM, there really are fantastic unis that will be less competitive for Physics where fewer have FM. Plus he has lots of engineering courses he could look at.

It says on Oxford website that GCSEs not considered. Heard from someone whose son is currently applying for Oxbridge (or rather sitting the tests) that they were told that because grades were so high the last couple of years (2021/2022) they're really discounting GCSEs as unreliable and mainly going on the tests and interview. But I don't know for sure...

It’s on Whatdotheyknow.com

The successful percentage is very low.

@Ilovellamasandpenguins The admissions report says they didn’t for 2022. However were proposing to for 2023 but as there’s no report yet, and unless it says on the web site, it’s difficult to know.

Getting in without FM looks slim odds.

Only FM covers mechanics, which is pretty elementary for physics.

im not sure if they contextualised my son’s score s for gcse as they were teacher assessed grades. But I think for this next cohort they may well do.

it’s the PAT score they are interested in, ipyour score determines if you get an interview

FM will help your ds in his understanding of physics, so he should definitely take it. If he is worried about other aspects of FM, I'm.pretty sure that Oxford only looks at the top 3 Alevels - so if he takes 4 A levels and gets the usual Astar, AA, then a B or even C in FM shouldn't disadvantage him, but anything learned from the mechanics module should help with any aptitude tests.

If FM is essential for the mechanics / physics, could it be worth having a tutor go over some FM modules if DC has not chosen FM?

Op, from open day experiences the competitive Unis consistently say for Maths/Physics take FM if your school offers it. They believe it's sets a firm foundation for studying Physics at degree level.

Think very carefully about whether you want to put your child through the pressure of applying for Oxford if he's not, at this point, already in the highest scoring cohort overall.

Our local college put massive pressure on young people to apply. A lot of young people I know slogged their guts out and didn't get in, and ended up feeling they were failures. Because of the set up in the UK, Oxford and Cambridge get the very brightest applicants. Many of them will not have had to work at all for GCSEs as at this stage, it will all be very easy for them. If your child is not smashing their GCSEs at this stage, they may really struggle to compete.

There are all sorts of issues around why more affluent children are more likely to end up at Oxbridge, and why Oxbridge graduates have such advantages over other graduates. But that doesn't mean we should be encouraging every child to apply.

If you look at the data from Oxford, 75% of the top 100 PAT scores are from international students. I think anyone with a profile of a C or D in FM would struggle with PAT and selection for interview. The odds are 1:8 for Physics with around 3 or 4 students out of 190 not having FM. I just think other unis make more sense.

I meant to say that the info also shows plenty of students apply without FM but they are largely not successful. A tiny proportion so I think where someone doesn’t think FM is for them, there are other avenues to pursue.