A levels, gaming system/softer subjects?

[Peverellshire]

It seems like RG universities etc care mainly about your ‘score’ not subjects?

Looking at other DC, say if you want to do English Lit at Newcastle, Exeter, Durham, etc, 3 A stars will trump a lot, no matter what subject? As long as A or A star in English? The subject you want to study.

Maths at Durham (?: A star Maths, Further Maths A star Classical Civilisation, A star, media studies, A star (?)

Does that trump: A Maths, A Physics, C Chemistry? For example.

Do we all make it too hard at Uni entry level?

I don't know. My ds did maths a level which was his lowest (albeit respectable) grade. He got his Bath offer as had done well on Epq and had one grade lower offer. Life would have been easier if he had chosen say geography rather than maths. However, still doesn't regret maths though epq was really necessary for him and not an easy option.
Not helping here am I... Sorry!

Can't speak for 2023 but to some extent I did this in the 90s. 4 A-levels including General Studies. I was told a narrow selection of subjects didn't play well for Oxbridge, though I still got interviews. To read history even a couple of RG would have accepted general studies so I could have done really badly at one of my three "proper" A levels and still got in.
I also did Eng Language which was really easy- you learned techniques along the course but there was minimal revision to do for the exams. I ended up with 4 A's but could have got my place with much less.

My ds simply takes the subjects he's interested in. Maths, Chemistry, Physics and DT. He enjoys them more and is therefore likely to get better grades.

He'd be cross eyed with boredom if he tried to take media studies - just not his thing. And I think that would apply to most people who interested enough to get an A* in chemistry.

Btec is the easiest way by far.

Don't know about now, but back in the olden days when I applied to university for a traditional humanities subject, all but one of my offers from MN approved Russell Group places counted General studies in with the three grade requirements. Which is a bit of a pisstake as it was basically a three hour pub quiz.

I think you need to ask that question at various university Open Days. Most posters here will have very limited knowledge, derived only from their DCs’ application experiences. Anecdotes are not data.

Agree on boredom but some it seems suck that up for lofty goal & a chance to ‘get stuck in’ later. Am seeing this sort of approach with Ivy applicants at top private schools.

in other words, 3 softer subjects taken by internationals, one poss a lang they are already effectively fluent in, from a prestige public school & bingo…

Also leaves time, if an Ivy the goal, for 2 years focus on super curricular.

It depends, from what I see on the course & institution.

Very broadly though, there are advantages to being strategic, 3 A stars will get you an ‘in’. As will close to this to a top 20. Or at very least over complicating & gunning for ‘very tough to get top grades’ A levels may not serve you best.

Was it really? What sort of questions? More IQ test than pub quiz? RGs accepted?

A word of caution. Partly to counter the perceived perception of being "soft" / "easy," some humanities subjects have really, really, small numbers of A* awarded compared to STEM. Have a look at this (other exam boards are available!)
https://filestore.aqa.org.uk/over/stat_pdf/AQA-A-LEVEL-STATS-JUN-2023.PDF

I can't recall whether General Studies was accepted by my uni, back in the day. I did literally no preparation for the exam and got an A, though. I remember writing essays on "What makes a good humorous article?" and "Which is better, 19th or 20th century music?" (chosen from a long list) plus lots of random "define this word" sort of stuff.

I'm really old and did JMB's General Studies A level. JMB stands for Joint Matriculation Board and was a consortium of northern red-brick universities. From memory this included Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Newcastle, all of which I believe are now RG.

For some reason best known to my school, I did Pure Maths A level rather than Maths & Stats. I didn't understand a word of Pure 2 and in the 3 hour exam, I had finished and checked it over after 15 minutes. I knew I would bomb it but the school refused to allow me to drop it, so I did General Studies too. Only the northern universities would include it in their offers, which made sense as they set it.

The papers were brutal because both 3 hour papers were sat on the same day. There were 5 sections in each and they covered science, comprehension, a MFL, arts knowledge, general knowledge and writing essays. As @TheTurn0fTheScrew writes, it was like a pub quiz but in an exam hall without the wine. I'm always up for a pub quiz and this played to my strengths. It was no surprise that I got an A - no A stars in those days. The surprise was getting an E in Pure Maths as I was so sure I would get a U.

General studies sounds fun! Thanks

Oh, the joyous randomness of General Studies questions! My brother says that one memorable one on his paper was 'which UK city has its own independent telephone company?' which must surely have been easier for one part of the country than others.

Best to choose what they are interested in, suit their skills, and will work hard at. Also what will best prepare them for their future studies, if they know what they want to do.
I'm not sure which subjects you think are "soft". Some kids find maths easy but struggle with essays, some are the other way round. Some are better with exams and others with coursework.

The great thing was @Kilopascal that they had quite a limited bank of questions and the same ones came around every couple of years. Obviously, I seriously pre-date anything being online, so my mum went to the printers round the corner from my dad's company that actually printed the exam papers and bought 4 years' past papers. I worked through them until I knew most of the answers. My favourite was "which of the following was an act of iconoclasm?" I looked up the word "iconoclasm" in the dictionary and saw which was the best answer. It was Henry VIII's dissolution of the monasteries. I also know the answer to your q but it's because my DH is from there: Hull.

How come I can remember stuff from 40 years ago in such detail but have no bloody clue what I am meant to be planning for the start of term?

I found this interesting when someone linked to it earlier https://ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2023/08/a-level-and-other-level-3-results-2023-the-main-trends-in-grades-and-entries/

I'm sure the universities know roughly what grades you need to be successful on their courses - so maybe B or higher in a science subject, but Cs in one of the subjects with lower percentages of the top grades.

If going for top flight places that interview (esp. Oxbridge) you need to have as much intellectual engagement as you can to help fly in interviews. Ie. You need the subjects that demand curiosity, commitment, creative and critical thinking, otherwise you’ll be found out at interview, unless you do a lot of independent wider reading outside of A Levels.

You might also want to consider whether you want your DC to be in a good place to tackle the kind of learning we expect at university. Depending on the subject and university, there is little to no rote learning and a whole lot of being able to spin clever, original theses from varied and independently discovered sources and data. We find a lot of students, who have good grades on paper, end up struggling at university as they haven’t been trained to think critically and ask difficult questions. They just want us to tell them what to say/do/write, and get very flustered by how differently we measure excellence at university. The good ones sort things out and catch up in their first year; the weaker and less confident ones continue to struggle despite the increasing levels of interventions that we make as lecturers.

The traditional, “difficult” A Levels often offer the best preparation for the challenges of university - ie. Further Maths, Eng. Lit., History, etc. The worst case for a student would be to get into a very academic programme at university, surrounded by other very bright and well-prepared UGs, and not be equipped (academically) to thrive in that environment. It can make university an expensive, isolating and, in the worst cases, failed experiment.

Having said all of that, the most important motivator for a young person should be interest and passion. The reverse can be just as problematic: young people being pushed into traditional academic subjects instead of taking the ones that they truly enjoy and are excited to study.

I mean, define "soft". I get annoyed at the suggestion that humanities subjects are easy - they're not. History, for example, is not a doss subject.

Some people find science/stem subjects easier and can't formulate their ideas into an essay easily. Others are better at written expression.

I found modern languages a breeze (I wasn't raised bilingual) because I had a facility for them - not everyone does. Choosing your best subjects is hardly gaming the system, is it?

General Studies A level is not offered any more and was not accepted by many universities when it was (certainly true at the small handful I have worked in).

It is annoying that "soft" (answers with room for debate) is contrasted with "hard" (clear unambiguous answers). It is then very easy to conflate that with "easy" vs "hard." I've studied and taught both sides of the "divide." Teaching essay subjects is, for me, more difficult to do well than teaching science subjects, (partly because students are far more likely to ask good but unusual question).

Maths at Durham (?: A star Maths, Further Maths A star Classical Civilisation, A star, media studies, A star (?)
Does that trump: A Maths, A Physics, C Chemistry? For example

Yes, but not for the reason I think you're getting at. FM is important for maths degrees, so double maths plus two others is likely to be considered more relevant than single maths plus two others.

But if you have relevant "others" such as physics or the new spec computer science (which is quite mathsy) then that will put you in a slightly better place.

NB: this is about securing an offer on an oversubscribed course. Once you have the offer then it's just a case of doing well enough to meet the conditions.

Brilliant, how wonderful…what a resourceful Mum.

I was told to write off re: one of my subjects to get past papers. I didn’t & lived to regret it. Too lazy :)

NB: By ‘gaming it’ I mean, for example, those who speak French & write French better than the average native, are effectively more French than English, possibly one French parent at home, taking regular French A’level, etc. NB: not an exam designed for native speakers.

Very dull to do but it frees up bandwidth. You turn up & it’s a guaranteed A star.

I discouraged one of mine from doing this, her father is Spanish re: Spanish as it felt off. Foolish mistake. Possibly also as it is far from obvious.

Although people say that about MFL A-levels, and obviously being a native speaker helps, much of the course is like English Literature (but in a different language). Lots of analysis of books/films, and that won't appeal to everyone who also happens to speak the language.

TBF, my understanding is a lot of unis won't accept A-levels in your native language towards their offer.

But in general, yes, what the third subject is often doesn't matter too much, even for competitive courses like medicine- the grade/prediction is more important.

A student getting As in maths and physics may not find an essay based subject "easier" though- I'd think they'd be better off looking at a third science, perhaps something like geology, if you can find somewhere that offers it?

Thanks. If you’ve been taught bilingually from birth but are not a ‘native’ speaker you can do an A level for a non native speaker, afaik. I know a few who have taken this extremely seriously. A wonderful gift, if funds allow. If you are white, caucasian, for example, but effectively Japanese in teems of fluency, especially if you’ve lived there, but board in UK for example. A small subset do this. Why not? If you can.

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