BA/MEng in Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (Cambridge)

[Createausernameargh]

After some advice for Ds 🙏🏻 Is anyone’s child doing this course currently? Wondering what ds chances are… he’s also interested in bio medical sciences at Imperial.

He was set to do Medicine hence his a levels maths, chemistry & biology. He’s already done 6 months care home work experience (!) but has decided it’s not for him which I’m actually relieved to hear. GCSEs: 8 9s, 2 8s

He’s starting to write his personal statement now but is it too late for this year? He’ll be in yr 13 in September. I’m assuming both these kind of unis expect a lot of extra curricular and FM? Although it looks like FM is not required for either but perhaps everyone has it? He could easily have done FM so is wondering if he should take a year out and do it? He focused on doing just the 3 a levels and getting 3 a* for medicine if that makes sense?

Thanks so much, any advice appreciated.

Sorry not to be any help, OP, but DS is also considering this course so I'm interested in any advice! (He's going into Y12, awaiting GCSE results...)

I have NC for this but I’m married to a Chemical engineering Professor, he is currently at work but will ask him when he gets home. He did actually study at Cambridge but it was a long time ago. Will ask him about FM, I know he did further maths and got 4 grade A’s, he also took his A levels aged 16 because he is such a massive nerd, I am also one :)

I misread your post. You are asking about about biomedical science rather than biomedical engineering. Still the latter is also worth look at as there are quite a lot of options with a biochemistry focus.

DD has an intercalated degree from Imperial in Bio-medical engineering, and opted mainly for bio mechanics.

She too was torn between medicine and engineering, but in the end decided this combination allowed for both. Her Imperial tutor has said that if she wants to continue with Engineering she can go straight onto the Masters course. She did her two month elective in an Imperial research lab and they have said to let them know if she wants to go onto a PhD.

Like your son she spent time working in a care home. Unlike your son she loved it and even when back to have lunch with her favourite old ladies. The manager suggested she thought that it was important for prospective medics to do this. Some people find it difficult to work with the elderly. It is better to find this out early.

DD did not have FM and effectively landed into the third year of the engineering degree with only a three week pre-sessional catch up maths course, and survived. She had an A* in maths and my guess is that almost all courses in Imperial will be quite mathematical, and that it would be important to have sufficient aptitude to be able to do well in FM if you had taken it. Some of her peers, despite top grades in everything, struggled.

I don't know anything about the Cambridge course, but DD loved Imperial. Fellow students were very focussed, and she was able to find a good group of work-hard play hard, sporty types. There is a lot of research going on, which teaching staff are engaged in, and there is a real sense of things happening. All the courses she took were open to Masters students from all over the place, and the teaching/assessment had a large element of project work. Frustrating at first, but the ability to work in multi cultural multi disciplinary groups is a really useful skill to gain.

I am not sure about extra curricular. Sheer academic horsepower seems to be the main way in, though DD took electronics and physics at A level so could also demonstrate interest.

I don’t think it’s too late for this year though he’ll have to work hard to get his personal statement etc in order quickly. Although academics can be slightly harder to get hold of in the summer, the professional services staff in Cambridge work year round. Your DS should try to reach the undergraduate admissions administrator at CEB and he will be able to explain his situation and ask for advice. The professional services staff are mostly very approachable at CEB, and in Cambridge in general staff want to demystify the process and reassure potential applicants. I suspect the same will be true at Imperial.

Did they change the course name recently?

I remember a few years ago it was just called chemical engineering and there was a natsci pathway and an engineering pathway

I do know the MEng will be the quicker route to being a chartered engineer. Without FM it’s surely a struggle to get into either of these unis? I would pitch a bit towards less elite unis with his A levels. No point doing medicine if he doesn’t want to so no route into engineering that way.

This is from Cambridge. Note the FM paragraph. It’s not essential but reading between the lines, it is. If your school didn’t offer it, that’s different.

There is a new route into Chemical Engineering at Cambridge, where you do the first year in Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (CEB), rather than the former routes which would have been applying via the Natural Sciences or Engineering routes. Most people I would think stay on for the four-year Masters course, but a few will leave after three years with a Bachelors degree.

I would say that if he has the time, he gets to grips with the Further Maths A-level before he gets to university - it makes life much easier. If he is doing EdExcel, he can use the Mr Bicen videos on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/@BicenMaths

There are also good tutorial videos from Exam Solutions:

https://www.examsolutions.net/a-level-maths/

Realistically OP, I think if FM was available at his school, he would be expected to have taken it. Thousands will be rejected who do have FM (unfortunately).

A gap year could be an idea and he could hopefully get some work experience to make his application 'stand out.' I'm not sure how they feel about doing FM separately though? On the other hand, at least he could show that he would be keeping his Maths skills ticking (as they don't tend to like gap years for Maths / heavy Maths-related subjects as a general rule).

A friend in the know tells me that for Cambridge, the interview is now purely academic, so lack of extra-curricular shouldn't be a problem.

2023 will be the first year of the new course, with an intake of 40 students. It will be its own separate entity, rather than coming in after the first year of another subject (sorry, Part 1 of another Tripos).

Cross-posted with @DreamingofBrie!

Further maths is not usually a requirement for chem eng courses, the 'usual' A levels are maths, physics and chemistry. I suspect a student is more likely to struggle without physics than further maths. However maths, chemistry and biology is perfectly suitable, especially for biochemical engineering. If your son is interested in this I'd also look at courses elsewhere, eg UCL and Sheffield.

Thanks so much for all the advice. I’m going to sit down with ds this evening and show him this thread.

Contacting the unis is a great idea. Ds did actually start FM last term as he knew he wasn’t doing the right a levels anymore… he’s not finding it difficult, it’s just whether his college allow him to sit the exam in yr 13 as opposed to the usual yr 12.
He’s summer born - it’s such a shame they have to choose a levels so soon…

@JellicleCat The op mentioned Cambridge and Imperial. They really will want fm and they might want all A levels taken at one sitting. Cambridge pre tests too.

Other excellent unis are available. I would think some demonstration of how DC has applied learning and experiences to the subject they want to study is vital. I would never assume a PS is not read. It certainly can be used as a tie breaker and I would never assume it’s not an icebreaker at interview.

Do you know what the one thing you can do to increase your chance of getting into Oxbridge is?

Apply!

It is one choice on a UCAS form. Give it a go and see what happens.

My DS has just finished 4 years studying Chemical Engineering at Imperial.

He did have FM A level though the course does not demand it. His flat mate from all 4 years arrived without FM A level. It's covered in the first year, but clearly the ones who already having studied FM are at an advantage.

The course is constant hard work, so probably like any course at either Cambridge or Imperial, but he and his peers have all secured jobs (or PhDs for the forthcoming year). (Most of these jobs are not in Chemical Engineering, it must be said!)

@ItsReallyOnlyMe ooh may I ask what jobs separate from Chem Eng they’ve secured? I think ds would find this interesting.

Ds Sixth form college is obviously closed for summer, I can’t find much on the internet about sitting FM in yr 13. I think starting last term his college thought he wanted to do an AS or something. The communication with college has been minimal and ds is so independent this has all kind of been sprung on me!

I so appreciate the help! I went to UAL so not much help on my own!

He’s also looking at Dundee & Edinburgh now.. they don’t require physics or FM it seems but the course seems more general..

If he takes Cambridge out of the equation he’d have until Jan to apply.

@Createausernameargh

The jobs (other than those in Chemical Engineering) are all in Finance (invariably in the city of London). Their good logical brains are in demand in this field and the salaries are higher so of course it's attractive.

Part of this may be attributed to internships (for their summer holidays in 2nd and 3rd years) are more readily available in Finance than Chemical engineering and the students are snapped up by these companies.

Hi @Createausernameargh - I can't help with the specific course (DS is doing engineering, not chemical engineering) at Cambridge, but yes, he was expected to take FM if the school offered it - and was glad that he had done so. He said that he went beyond his FM understanding by about week 6 of his first year!

Re extra curricular stuff, Cambridge really aren't fussed about it - they ONLY care about your super curricular stuff - maths challenges, lectures/books etc that you've read or been to relating to your course and interest. DS was asked one question about the books that he'd put on his personal statement, but most of the rest of it was equations etc.

He also had an offer from Imperial and really enjoyed the interview (much less pressured than C), and he really loved their course, but he decided that he didn't want to be at a London uni with all of the financial pressures that entails - and especially at Imperial where he felt he'd really be the 'poor relation' next to the (very) affluent Asian students who were at his offer holder day....

Of my cohort (Chemical Engineering), most of the women went into Engineering as a profession (not all stayed). The men went into Banking, Management Consultancy, Engineering, Accountancy, Actuarial Services. I'm sure I've missed a few of them out.

Would agree about lack of Physics being a concern, but given that the degree is now called "and Biotechnology", the course is probably very different from its previous forms.

@Createausernameargh

Just to clarify a point which @Panicmode1 said.

Undoubtedly there were affluent students at Imperial, but I think students 'find their tribe' which tend to be individuals similar to them.

He buddied up in the first year with 4 British individuals (varying ethnicities) who all (apart from him) had gone to state school. So I would say, from his point of view, his peers were not affluent and he himself actually benefited from the generous Imperial bursaries as our household income qualified us for it for all 4 years.

@Createausernameargh my DS3 is planning to apply for this course.

At the start of Y12 he was torn between medicine and engineering.
He was persauded by school to start FM in case he chose engineering. His 6th form puts all the FM students through AS levels so if he'd picked medicine he would probably have dropped FM in Y13.

I seem to remember reading that for the engineering course that if FM wasn't taken to A-level that you showed evidence of addition maths study
"A Level Further Mathematics is very strongly encouraged. If unavailable or you’ve recognised its desirability too late, we’d advise you to do as much additional pure maths and mechanics as possible, eg by studying advanced material or Further Mathematics AS Level"

I would think AS level FM might be an option and not sure that Chemical Engineering may be quite so insistent on FM as the engineering course.

In terms of being too late to apply I think he should be able to catch-up
My DS has spent some time doing work experience but only because we have friends in the business. I expect not all applicants have this opportunity and as long as he can show an interest and some super curricular reading/activities he shouldn't be disadvantaged.
My DS has done some NSAA past papers for the entrance exam but his PS is still to be started! I'm trying to gently encourage as I know how busy next term will be but I guess it has to come from him.