BA/MEng in Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (Cambridge)

[Createausernameargh]

After some advice for Ds 🙏🏻 Is anyone’s child doing this course currently? Wondering what ds chances are… he’s also interested in bio medical sciences at Imperial.

He was set to do Medicine hence his a levels maths, chemistry & biology. He’s already done 6 months care home work experience (!) but has decided it’s not for him which I’m actually relieved to hear. GCSEs: 8 9s, 2 8s

He’s starting to write his personal statement now but is it too late for this year? He’ll be in yr 13 in September. I’m assuming both these kind of unis expect a lot of extra curricular and FM? Although it looks like FM is not required for either but perhaps everyone has it? He could easily have done FM so is wondering if he should take a year out and do it? He focused on doing just the 3 a levels and getting 3 a* for medicine if that makes sense?

Thanks so much, any advice appreciated.

Thanks @ItsReallyOnlyMe I’m hopeful he’ll find his tribe as at the moment he doesn’t seem to have one! He likes serious, ambitious, chess playing types! Not many of those at his sixth form.

Do make sure you check out the colleges too, as unless your ds makes an open application, he'll be choosing a specific college to apply to.

@Createausernameargh

Your DS sounds like he'd fit right in at either university!

These are the stats for successful students at Cambridge re A levels.

It’s also no wonder we have a shortage of engineers solving the problems the world faces when the highest qualified go for big bucks in the City. They clearly didn’t really want to be engineers at all and it’s a shame places don’t go to people who really do want this career.

He's got until January to decide on, and add other universities to his application, if he does apply to Cambridge. He just has to either pay the 'multiple places' fee to UCAS upfront, or top up the single place fee when he adds the others.

DH said if he wants Cambridge then do FM. Also as with any statement you need to put the very personal reasons why you want to study that subject, show the passion. Cambridge and imperial are amazing but look at the standing of the subject in other Universities.

It is true many go off for big bucks in the city and of DH friends who were there with him at Cambridge. Two are bankers, himself and two others remained in academia and three are spanner’s engineers as we jokingly call them and actually work in engineering. Of those spammers engineers two are women so correlates with @DreamingofBrie observation. Obviously these lot did PhD level study so probably skewed towards academia.

Friends at University come from three places, course, accommodation and societies. He will find his tribe.

@ladsmum thank you for your post. After talking to ds apparently last term college could only allow him to do an AS FM at this late stage but perhaps if he shows evidence of extra maths work taken plus passion it’s still worth a shot for C? Where is your ds applying? Ds is more interested in the imperial course at the moment but I’m worried he’ll become a bit lost living in the capital…. Also the expense!

@PerrysHandbook his college said he could only do an AS FM at this late stage :(

Morning OP, your DS sounds very independent and self-motivated and he has tried to do the right things in terms of finding work experience, finding out about his preferences and abilities regarding medicine, adjusting his choices and trying to gain the extra qualification he now sees he might need. Honestly he sounds like a really good candidate, and he should be able to make a really good story out of his considered actions and choices for his PS and any interviews.

I just wanted to encourage you again about having him discuss options with the departments that interest him- I know PP have talked about ‘reading between the lines’ but Cambridge really are trying to make their guidance as plain and straight forward as possible. If they say further maths is not essential for a course they do mean that- and in any case your DS will have some further maths and a really good narrative about why. I think a discussion with an admissions officer would be really helpful to him in deciding his next steps.

Well 1 out of 8 applicants get a place on this course at Cambridge and 86% have FM. Might be worth a shot but he’s late to the party having wanted medicine. Only 40 places on the course so around 5/6 students are successful without FM. I don’t see how he can now show much “passion” for the subject at all. What has he done to support his application? Is it any wonder engineering grads don’t stay in engineering if it’s a last minute decision?

Have a go, but be realistic. Other universities really are wonderful too. Might even meet up with city financiers!

DS did the MEng in Chem Eng at Edinburgh, graduated in 2021 (in the midst of Covid, he also missed out on the chance of an industry project placement in his final year because of Covid) and got a job pretty quickly in an international company in materials safety - not as well paid as finance but he enjoys it and he’s on a decent package.

He had maths, maths of mechanics and chemistry at Advanced Higher (no FM in Scotland). Had physics at Higher level, don’t think he was disadvantaged by not having it at AH. It’s a very maths heavy degree so you do have to love maths and problem solving.

Bear in mind that Scottish degrees are an extra year, although some may offer direct entry into Yr 2.

The 14% of accepted students who have not taken FM will be from schools that don't offer it at all.

@3pm That’s my view too. Widening participation. I think C steer Dc pretty much to FM if it’s available. However other very decent courses are available. @Chemenger used to know this subject!

If he is interested in the biomedical sciences degree at Imperial then I would guess he is drawn to the biotechnology of the Cambridge degree rather than the chemical engineering? Is he interested in using his biology or switching to chemical engineering? The latter will be hard without physics. Has he also considered degrees like the molecular bioengineering at Imperial or biochemical engineering at UCL or biotechnology at Manchester?

There is also a range of biomedical engineering degrees that might be interesting?

I don’t understand why he’s so bothered about these two unis that are the most competitive. He’s not the best fit for Cambridge or Imperial anyway so why not be pragmatic and understand that no FM and no Physics limits options. It’s not as if other unis here are not first class.

@TizerorFizz

I expect he would like to try for a World Class university and why not ? UCAS does give 5 options for universities and courses. He's not going to get in if he doesn't apply.

He's clearly academic and I don't see why he wouldn't be the right fit for them. FM is not a pre-requisite for either course.

The Imperial Course doesn’t require FM and the Cambridge course doesn’t explicitly require FM, but I’d expect it to be a very maths heavy course covered at speed so at least some FM knowledge beforehand would help.

Useful thread here:

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7329684

Cambridge expect you to take FM if the school offer it! Not sure why posters don’t get that. He has not. FM is only likely to be waived if school do not offer it. It’s just ridiculous to pretend otherwise. They don’t explicitly say this but the odds are stacked against for both unis and that’s 2/5. He’s not got FM. It makes a difference regarding which unis are a sensible choice. He made a choice of A levels for another course. Late change of mind is an issue. Has he practiced for the entry test? Has he even looked at it?

As for the idea that these two unis are the only ones with academic engineering courses? What a complete load of tosh. We need to stop obsessing about these two and realise that there are just as good elsewhere (if you might actually want to be an engineer). He really should look at unis like Sheffield but he does not have Physivs either so choosing wisely matters. 91% of successful DC on the Cambridge course offered Physics so it’s not even FM thsts thd issue. Only 4 successful candidates didn’t offer Physics. 7 candidates for every successful one. Do you not think all those turned down are not academic too? Of course they are snd they are also successful elsewhere.

One thought, which might not work. If he is really keen, he could teach himself (full) Further Maths and enter the exam as a private candidate, either through at his school or elsewhere...? That would certainly show willing!

Although I also approve @TizerorFizz's message that there are plenty of other excellent engineering courses out there.

@TizerorFizz why are you so adamant that the OP should accept your read on things rather than encouraging her DS to be proactive in contacting the particular departments and discussing options? The latter will lead to a much clearer understanding of what might be possible. Late change of mind might be an issue but I think it is admirable that he has recognised his strengths and weaknesses and wants to course-correct rather than follow the sunk costs fallacy. If he can articulate that well, I will not be the only one to see it that way. Also I think it’s being missed that the DS seems to be attracted to the biotech/biomed aspects of the course more than ‘purely’ engineering or even chemeng. That’s understandable, but it’s a rarer offer and it will need to inform his choice of courses and institutions.

@TizerorFizz

Cambridge expect you to take FM if the school offer it! Not sure why posters don’t get that.

Because taking FM if the school offered it used to be a requirement for Chem Eng when going through the NatSci or Engineering routes. Now if you look at the individual college entry requirements, most colleges specify Maths and Chemistry or Maths, Chemistry and one other science / maths A level; very few specify FM.

The Engineering entry requirements strongly recommends that candidates take FM at A level, or if applicants that have realised too late then to take it at AS level; the Chem Eng & Biotech entry requirements do not have this recommendation.

Mainly because most people know that FM is highly desirable. It’s just what the position is at Cambridge for the majority. I’ve said have a go but surely other unis take bright Dc? It’s rather odd to think one or two totally outshine the rest. They do not.