University Entry Requirements

[Nomoreplease23]

DD16 is awaiting her GCSE results and is due to attend sixth form college. So far she has chosen creative A'Levels but is now considering more academic subjects so as not to restrict her degree choices. Recently at school the sixth form admissions teacher was displaying software which showed the entry requirements for RG and other universities and I was surprised to see the pathway where creative subjects were accepted for 'academic' degrees.

DD is bright, but wants to invest her time into subjects she enjoys and I do believe that she will obtain better results where she has a passion as she can 'lose interest'. However she recognises that she doesn't want to limit her choices.

I would like to know what the software is - are there any sixth form tutors who are aware of this - I imagine it is by subscription but having DD16 look through this I hope would give her some confidence as to her pathway.

(I would contact her old school but it is closed for summer).

Sheffield actually only apply that list to a small number of degrees these days . They have always been notoriously anti media subjects, despite offering a BA in journalism, and really this is out of kilter with virtually every other uni. I have phoned them up on behalf of students in the past and they always cave.

On a side note, curious to know how A level law makes their approved list, but not A level media or film. I think they don't care or want to know that both subjects require extensive academic essay writing.

Hey ho. Different debate for a different thread.

Yes, but the OP's DD doesn't seem at all maths inclined so it just seemed an oddly detailed example. I'm sure most know that if you want you do comp sci you need maths type subjects and if you want to fo English you need English.

OP's concern seems to be about creative subjects not being sufficient full stop for uni entrance.

I do,however, agree that it woukd be useful to know what the OP means exactly by 3 creative subjects.

I think that the '3 creative subjects' was a different PP whose DC is aiming for a music degree? (In which case I can't see any problem other than coursework overload.)

Oh, you're right. I've conflated two threads!!

This one is still about a DC who has chosen creative subjects though, at least! And an OP who thinks those aren't academic and seems surprised that the majority of unis disagree.

I managed to persuade them to let me do Food Technology which they thought “wouldn’t count to UCAS” but that class was the only one I enjoyed and I got an A.

Little late to the thread, but this made me smile @ImAMinion. I have a goddaughter who was desperately keen to do Food Tech for A level despite the concerns of her parents that it 'wouldn't count'. Neither of them had been to university so maybe it was understandable, but we persuaded them it would be fine as a choice. Wind forward a few years and she now has a PhD in an aspect of Food Tech and works abroad for a well-known international drinks company.

The coursework amount is a concern for 3 creative A levels, and like the OP child mine also prefers this over final exams. My DD argued that she has proven she is good at coursework from her GCSE marks (before moderation). So plays to her strengths. Whatever she does post A level it will be something creative/arts. The main thing is she is really happy with her choices and excited for 6th form. I just hope that Unis do treat A levels all equally.

Looking at the % who get top grades at A level in creative subjects is quite low compared to somthing like Maths. Which kind of implys its hard to get top grades. Hoping this is down to creative subjets mostly being the 3rd A Level?

Looking at the % who get top grades at A level in creative subjects is quite low compared to somthing like Maths. Which kind of implys its hard to get top grades. Hoping this is down to creative subjets mostly being the 3rd A Level?

I mentioned this effect upthread. I'm not sure how the boards come up with the proportions of different grades but generally the most 'academic' subjects will have the most able students taking them and hence more students who deserve a high grade. I don't know if there's any stats about the distribution of gcse grades for the students taking an a level vs the a level grade stats. (I don't think I worded that very well but hopefully you get the gist).

Thank you for your comments and the links provided - the three A'Levels are Music, Graphic Communication and Textiles. All except Music are new (and therefore interesting!) subjects for DD who will be attending a different sixth form college from her school. The college also provides an Art Foundation course as a bridge to Universities - DD has predictions for 8's at GCSE, she suffers from extreme (to the point of debilitating) anxiety and assessed assignments opposed to exams at the end of two years may relieve some stress, however as some have said the workload may be overwhelming.

I suppose I am asking what doors do such specific A'Levels close - she has shown no interest in STEM - but for example would Journalism be a possible degree. Maybe I need to reverse engineer this and look at courses that DD may be interested in and work back to the entry requirements, although of course these are her choices.

For journalism I’d expect an essay subject such as English but I think there are courses where it would be fine.

Would a Btec in something like art & design or a graphics type subject suit her learning style better?

Working backwards is a great idea! If she wants to go down the Art/Design route at uni, there is a lot of discussion and advice (and some very friendly people) here;
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4795276-art-and-design-at-university-for-past-present-and-future-students-and-parents

I would be extremely concerned about the NEA workload there. I reckon take out one of the DT subjects. If journalism is potential, consider English or a more conventional essay subject ( in which one could include media, film, sociology, politics, history etc)

Yeh that’s a lot of NEA. Agree, how about an essay subject from @Piggywaspushed’s list and drop one of the tech subjects.

I imagine a journalism degree will not be fussy as to subjects - they usually want people to do it. I agree that a writing subject would be useful. Does she want to be a journalist? Is she already doing some journalism? If not she should. Easy enough these days. Tbh I wouldn’t really recommend a journalism degree as a rule (and I’m mostly a journalist by profession).

You ask what what does her A level choices close - obviously loads and loads of degrees (science, engineering, med, vet, Eng lit, geog, MFL, maths, history) but any A levels will. With those choices she could do a music degree or something relating to graphics or textiles. Or art foundation maybe? Or obvs all degrees that require no specific subjects - such as classical civ, sociology, journalism, marketing … tho an essay subject would support these better.

I teach in an arts/creative arts subject at a RG university. We require at least one at A Level and minimum 2 Bs, although most of our undergrads start with at least 2 As at A Level.

So despite current poisonous Government rhetoric, “creative” subjects are not dumb down subjects at research-led universities (post-92s are a different story). And you know, Carrie Johnson majored in Theatre Studies at Warwick, whatever she says now ….

My advice to your DD would be to make sure there’s at least one essay-heavy A Level. English literature or History are great preparation for my discipline.

Tbh I wouldn’t really recommend a journalism degree as a rule (and I’m mostly a journalist by profession).

It's not remotely my field, but I wondered what it'd like to work in for someone with debilitating anxiety - it always seems to be portrayed as rather stressy and deadline-driven but that may be Hollywood rather than reality.

the three A'Levels are Music, Graphic Communication and Textiles.

Sorry, I’ve just seen this. I don’t think this is a great set of choices for a Journalism career. Not enough research and essay writing. It looks a bit academically “light” for a RG. I’d be asking her about essays and research if I interviewed her for my department. We still interview and this array would make me wonder if she were up to our standards and expectations in our degree.

Even the mostly wildly “creative” degree at the most prestigious RG - say Theatre at Bristol (if they do it there) - needs research-based essay writing.

I am also conscious that DD suffers from severe anxiety,

Please, talk to her about a gap year where she does some things - maybe volunteer work- and therapy to get her on the road to recovery from this! It’s not compulsory to go to university and if she’s already making choices because of severe anxiety university may not be the place for her yet.

She might benefit from doing something that gets her out of her own head for a bit IYSWIM. Spending three years excavating her own mind (I often think of an Arts degree like this as it’s part of what we ask students todo!) may not contribute to her health and recovery from anxiety.

She may really benefit from being “other-directed” so she’s more resilient and not constantly thrown back onto herself and her thinking. Working with animals, or volunteering to care for others or the like …

Her degree could then be a better one both in results and learning.

Depends. Both. Yes you do what you love. You also do what you need to get to where you want to go. Surely this is basic common sense and they cover all this at school, ie choosing A'levels that don't inhibit you. Eg if you want to do anything sporty, many Uni's including Loughborough, which is considered to be one of the best for this, many courses require an A'level science, and some even specify that they prefer biology. I only know this because 2 of Ds1's female friends got caught out by this last year.

SideWonder - You have highlighted my concerns over 3 creative subjects exactly. My DD is planning on doing Music/Art/Drama A levels. I did suggest Eng Lit rather than Drama but not that keen.

@MsElizabethBennett DD is very impulsive - it does feel as the stress / boredom of recent GCSE exams has influenced her A'Level subject decisions. She has a talent for written MFL (but not as confident a speaker due to anxiety) and also a keen interest in biology, from experience would these work in to substitute Textiles or Graphic Communication - does biology require a complementary science?

The workload concerns me - I do recall having a lot of free time when studying my 'traditional' A'levels - just wonder if that free time could / would be used productively by DD for the intense workload.

My DD took an art subject, an essay subject, and a STEM subject (plus another essay AS rather than an EPQ or similar). However, she knew that she wasn't going into STEM, so took Bio purely for interest. It wasn't the greatest idea in retrospect as a lot of the biochem on the spec left her cold. Taking bio-based courses at uni often requires a second science.

Could she consider an A level that has exams as well a (small) element of coursework to relieve a bit of exam pressure eg Eng Lit/ History? I'm sure there are others.

@ElectricToothbrush my daughter would laugh darkly at the idea that having History coursework relieves any exam pressure!
OP, my daughter is going into the creative industry, looking to go to an art Uni like Arts University Bournemouth or Falmouth, but she didn't want to reduce her options (plus she's quite academic) so did History and Psychology as well as Art A level, and a tangentially related EPQ. History was by far the most work intensive, Art only at times (a few all nighters before portfolio/sketchbook deadlines), Psychology a relative walk in the park. Most art unis do not require particularly high grades as the portfolio is the most important factor, so NOT doing all creative subjects certainly wouldn't count against her.
Highly recommend the Art Foundation course (as long as it's accredited), that's what my daughter is doing this coming year. It will help your DD decide what she wants to concentrate on, or, may make her realise she wants to do something more academic, and if she has at least one non creative A level (my daughter was going to take Biology but her 'back up' plan was a Social Anthropology degree which Psychology matches more, if she was going to do forensic Anthropology it would have been Biology) she will be better placed.
My DD applied to sixth form and no one said she should not do the Art/History/Biology combo.

@Nomoreplease23 A MFL was suggested for DD so that might be a good fit alongside two creative subjects. We were told a single science was not a good fit, as two sciences are generally expected. Maybe wait for her results and see it that changes her thinking. Mine is dead set on doing all three creatives.