Art and Design at university; for past, present, and future students and parents

[PhotoDad]

I've been on a wonderful thread about applications for art/design applications for the coming academic year, and I thought it might be useful to have a more general place for people at different stages of the process to share advice and hints. The normal MN advice about universities is often not applicable to these subjects!

I'll keep this short because I personally don't like huge posts that appear at the top of each page, but I'll add some starting thoughts below. I know that there's a huge range of experience here and a lot of support, so please do ask questions, or share triumphs and disasters.

The original thread is here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4626697-2023-uni-applications-for-those-pursuing-art-and-creative-routes

[PhotoDad]

Some initial thoughts: 1/3 The process

After choosing at least one art or design course post-GCSEs (A-level or BTEC or...), students think about applying at the end of Y12 or the start of Y13. There are three main routes.

A. Foundation diploma in Art and Design (FAD).
This is a one-year course. It is offered by lots of local colleges as well as some universities and art schools. (Some art schools exist "on their own" or as part of "art universities" and other have been absorbed into bigger universities.) It has no tuition costs for UK students who are 18 years old when they start. However, it is outside the Student Maintenance Loan system, so students tend to stay local. On the FAD, students try various different art/design subjects (Fine Art, Graphics, Photography, Fashion, Illustration, etc etc) to help them decide on a degree. Application is directly to the institutions involved with varying deadlines.

B. Integrated Foundation Year at university.
This allows students to experiment to varying extents. It is an extra year before the "normal" degree but is counted as part of the course so has the usual tuition fees and is eligible for full student loans. Application is through UCAS. However, unlike the FAD, these require you to stay at the same university after completion; effectively it's just a 4-year course rather than a 3-year one.

C. Straight to Degree.
This is a 3-year course like any other degree, applications are through UCAS. (Some places have options for 4-year courses with placement years.) Students will need a stronger portfolio (next post!) than for routes A and B, and will also need to have decided on their precise subject.

It's possible to apply for FADs (outside UCAS) and also for a degree (UCAS) at the same time, and decide which to accept once offers are in.

[PhotoDad]

Some initial thoughts: 2/3 The portfolio.

Every institution will want to see a portfolio of work. Unfortunately, everywhere wants to see something slightly different but it's normally 10-20 pages or pieces of top-quality stuff, ideally a mix of school-work and personal projects (so students should be working on this from the moment they decide on art school!) Most universities also want to see some work-in-progress, and/or process pictures showing how ideas are developed.

The best advice my DD got in the whole process was; don't submit applications until a core portfolio is ready! Often places reply within days, asking to see the portfolio. (Of course there are exceptions.) That could create a panic if it's not already mainly done.

The nice thing is that if somewhere really likes the portfolio, they are likely to give an offer based on low grades or even unconditional. This is much more common in the world of the arts (including performing arts where there's an audition) as they are looking for one particular skill-set.

[PhotoDad]

Some initial thoughts: 3/3 The elephant in the room.

Various threads on MN have concluded that although art & design careers are right for many students, who can't imagine themselves doing anything else, high-paid careers are very rare at the end of it.

Some people manage to make serious money (but only a few), and others tick along, and some do small freelance commissions alongside a "day-job" or leave the field completely. I think this is all about expectation management and it entirely depends on the student's interests and plans, but it's worth flagging up to applicants right at the start. Art school is hard work; it is by no means an easy subject, with lots of assignments and briefs and crits. It needs to be driven by passion.

One of the things to investigate when researching courses is employment statistics, as with any other course. League tables tend to be awful because they lump lots of different areas together; some places might have great reputations for one particular course! The best detail is on the discoveruni.gov.uk website. Research might also look at whether any business skills are taught as part of the course, especially for intending freelancers.

There! Those are the key things that I wish someone had told me, so I hope that it helps others. (My DD is finishing the first year of an illustration course at the moment.)

[Windywuss]

With regard to point 3, this will vary wildly by subject.

Illustration for example, will have lots of freelancers working. Highly competitive and hard to get established.

Game Art has grads that can earn a really decent salary and have good career progression. So not very rare in this area. Similarly, animation and motion graphics and graphic design can lead to some great careers.

All creative careers are highly competitive and require a lot of commitment.

The stats don't always show the true picture. There's an 18 month lag to have data included in official records due to how they collate it.


I would recommend you ask students and lecturers for examples of grad success stories after uni. Believe me, if they can't give you several specific examples then that's not a good sign. Staff who care know what they grads are doing.

[StroppyTop]

@PhotoDad Thank you SO much! DD is Y12 and interested in art courses. This is an amazing summary and so useful. I’m going to get her to read it too.

[PhotoDad]

@Windywuss Absolutely agreed, excellent point! It does vary hugely depending on field. Uni websites should be full of success stories, including things to raise graduate visibility such as degree shows and students who win national competitions etc. If they're not, that should really raise questions. A placement year can also be a way to make contacts.

[PhotoDad]

@StroppyTop You're very welcome! I'm a teacher so I know that this is the time of year that Y12s are staring to think about things, and I couldn't find this all in one place when DD started along the way.

[Windywuss]

@PhotoDad placement years are good in theory but I would not negatively judge if courses don't offer this. There are too many courses for the amount of possible placements that creative industries can offer. Some placements are not well supported and are not great. Also, do not entirely judge on information on websites. They're more of an overview/snapshot. Talking to current staff and students is better. For example, putting head shots of graduates on my course page with success stories is great but it takes time to update and get these regularly. I probably do mine annually and it's not always easy to get grads to do this. But I have had lots of updates from my grads in the last few weeks. New jobs, career progression (moving up if they started 2-3 years ago). If staff have this information and can chat about it, it shows their grads are keeping in touch and have had a good experience. That grads are good quality and are going to have longevity in careers.

Oh and look out for Degree Shows. They'll all be happening soon!

[PhotoDad]

@Windywuss There is absolutely no substitute for seeing a place and talking to people! DD's rank-order of places "on paper" was hugely changed by visiting, feeling the 'vibe' of the city, and talking to staff and students. But websites are probably handy in drawing up a long-list in the first place!

DD has signed up for a placement year but we will see if that goes ahead (if not she'll drop back to the 3-year version). Lots of people chasing too few placements as you say. Thank you for joining the thread, it's fantastic to have someone on the other side of the desk so to speak.

This is probably more of a personal taste thing, but DD was keen to study somewhere with small cohorts so that she would get to know tutors better (and vice versa). I suspect grads are more likely to stay in touch in places like that? Some of the big art-schools are huge and I think that would be a different experience. Not necessarily a bad one, but not what she was looking for.

[mondaytosunday]

Fantastic @PhotoDad - many schools do not quite 'get' the route in to art university and those students end up floundering about while UCAS applicants are well supported.
If anyone is considering FAD or straight to art school as @Windywuss says GO TO THE END OF YEAR SHOWS! This has proved invaluable in my daughter's decisions. Many can be seen online too, though in person is best. Not only will you see the kind of work produced and if it aligns with your interests/quality, you are likely to be able to chat to actual students and teachers - we had a most interesting conversation with the head of the Animation department at Ravensbourne who explained much better about integrated Foundation (often called Year 0 and regular FAD than I had managed to glean online. I hadn't realised they are quite different things. Also we saw that little blurb next to the students' work also said what university they were heading to.
Also re portfolios; nowadays they seem to be mostly submitted online, even the one in person interview my daughter did they requested it online with just one or two actual pieces brought along. I think this doesn't really show their work off to the best advantage, but it's the way things are. And of course each place wants different things on different platforms, though to contradict @PhotoDad the amount was 30-35, at least for Foundation, with half being progress work (like from their A level sketch book).
Also if applying straight to degree your portfolio needs to be focused on whichever field you are applying for, when applying for FAD they want a broad spectrum of media demonstrating exploration, and they LOVE 3D work as not many applicants do that.
Finally, if a student has not done Art at A level but still are keen, many art schools (sorry I grew up in the US and we call university 'school') offer short courses during half terms and summer to help build up a portfolio, some even call it portfolio prep. FE colleges too.

[PhotoDad]

That's a lot of pieces, @mondaytosunday! I suppose that Foundation needs evidence of a very wide range of skills. Yes, it's immensely confusing that "Foundation" can mean two different things (unlike other subjects). And we still talk about "art school" in the UK even at university level, just to add to the chaos.

There are lots of good guides to portfolios out there; this one is more detailed than most. It's mainly about Fine Art and Illustration, and is from the place where my DD is (which is "Anglia Ruskin University" to anyone outside the creative industries, and "Cambridge School of Art" to anyone within them; CSA actually expanded to become ARU! It is the perfect place for her but its approach is a bit 'marmite.') Much of the advice is universal though. The sooner that intending applicants know this stuff, the better. Many schools see art/design applications only rarely and don't quite explain clearly.

[Windywuss]

@PhotoDad Yes, good point. Some very large courses these days. Mine is a small course but it means I know my students very well and they get very good access to staff.

Just as general pointer to degree shows, look out for this article for this year. It shows last year's but gives some useful listings https://www.creativeboom.com/resources/graduate-shows-2022/

[Isheabastard]

I’m sorry but I haven’t read through all the posts but just wanted to say that my DD graduated 4 years ago and is in a well paid job.

However she does digital design. I’m wondering if digital is the thing that will/has changed the future job market for art and design degrees and made it more positive?

Every App you have on your phone had a designer involved.

[MissKittyFantastico84]

Hello! Just dropping by with my experience...

I attended Central Saint Martins for the Foundation year in the early 00s. It was a real shock on leaving sixth form, as there were a lot of students, many from overseas, who were all on the whole, very talented and generally pretty arty and mysterious. I felt pretty out of place, and never really found my footing there - it's an INTIMIDATING place, and I wasn't even in the very exciting Kings Cross building.

My portfolio was pretty much all my own self led work, not just 'I've done this as coursework because I had to' and I think that helped me stand out.

And I now work in the creative industries in a well paid job. My art degree background was a really important part of my development- mainly in a 'developing conceptual thinking' way. For me, having ideas is what makes me the £££ - because not everyone can do it well!

x

[PhotoDad]

@Isheabastard and @MissKittyFantastico84 Thank you both, for obvious reasons I love reading success stories about people with art/design degrees! CSM is very big, isn't it?

[HannahDefoesTrenchcoat]

Thank you Photodad for starting the new thread and everyone for the contributions already.

It’s good to see the thread starting with the generous, helpful, grounded yet encouraging approach of the last one.

my creative DC is in y12. Siblings are in STEM and finance so a whole new world for us 🤯

[Windywuss]

@MissKittyFantastico84 you are so right to point out the idea generation and creativity. More important than ever with ai coming up and people thinking this replaces the visual iteration process for artists. I did ug in fine art with a different subjects at masters...then worked in a related industry before becoming a lecturer and now leading our degree programme. Things have changed since I was a student, but the ability to take and respond to feedback and need to creative and innovative thinking has not.

[Philandbill]

Joining the new thread. Thanks for setting it up @PhotoDad , the last thread was lovely.

[Pourmeanotherwine]

Also joining the new thread, as the previous one was lovely and supportive.
My DD is currently doing foundation at a local college. It is UAL linked, as are many courses around the country. They are currently half way through their final 10 week project. They have been encouraged to experiment with different material and techniques, including 3D. She's enjoyed an extra year living at home, and didn't have to do university portfolios in year 13 while also doing history coursework and A level art coursework.
She has applied for illustration for next year, and is probably going to Falmouth. We're in Falmouth this weekend, as her interview for Falmoith was in Bristol ( where we live), and she wanted to see the place before making a final decision. Other option was AUB, and she has unconditional offers from both.

[MissKittyFantastico84]

@PhotoDad When I was at CSM it was across three or four buildings - I was in the old printworls in Farringdon. CSM for Foundation is a big shout if you want to do your degree somewhere else - it remains impressive!

I did actually get accepted on the degree course I wanted at CSM, but I didn't really LOVE my time there, so went elsewhere.

If your young person is pretty confident and ambitious, CSM would be a good choice. You have to be a real self starter as no one is going to hold your hand. You are expected to be a cut above and the workload is intense. But it really is a crash course and you'll get pushed! x

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

Thanks for new thread @PhotoDad. My DS is coming to the end of a stand alone FAD at Leicester DMU. He is going elsewhere for degree (as the DMU Fine Art degree is not for him).
My points are as follows:
Applying for Foundation requires individual applications to each institution and a portfolio. Some also require an entrance project (Man Met for instance). Deadlines vary and are NOT the same as UCAS deadline...Some are earlier.
There's no set time for a reply. Some FAD courses take forever to offer. Last year Man Met didn't give DS his offer until after the acceptance deadline for DMU! Their loss!!!
Foundation is full on. It's not an 'easy year'.
Portfolio prep is vv time consuming. It's all stayed on line after covid and everywhere wants it done differently. Although it's hard to balance it with A level work it's also hard to balance with FAD work...
My DS made a 'core' portfolio which he tweaked for each different institution.
My DS has found the FAD year really helpful. He would not have coped with fine art degree straight from school. Foundation has bridged the gap between the structure of school and the unstructured nature of degree. And DMU has done this very well.

[PhotoDad]

Thanks, @Lottsbiffandsmudge! Should perhaps note that Fine Art tends to be less structured than Design courses, and that might suit some students better than others. It's the nature of the beast! (To over-simplify, Fine Art is creating what you want and then selling it, whereas Design is working to the orders of a client. Obviously that's not always true as people do commission Fine Art pieces!)

[TizerorFizz]

Although a while ago now, DD found portfolios were either seen at interview where you answered questions about the work or they were submitted digitally. Sometimes a snapshot of just a few elements submitted early. DD applied in November. Interviews followed for 3 courses by mid Feb. One gave an offer based on UCAS application. Two others have offers. Two never responded at all despite one seeing DD at interview. Generally it was a bizarre experience. DD got her first choice but why don’t universities respond by the deadline? The one who interviewed was still advertising places and inviting applicants. It just felt like a total shambles.

[PhotoDad]

@TizerorFizz I can confirm from the other thread linked above that it still seems like a chaotic mess in some places, although now it's nearly all digital. However, my own DD applied in November (with a portfolio ready to tweak), had portfolio requests from three of her five choices, sent it off... and was given an unconditional offer before the other unis had replied. (She had the satisfaction of withdrawing her application.)

So it seems to be a complete lottery. Other MNers on other threads have reported bizarre situations where DC have been told that their portfolios can't be viewed online. Some are still waiting to hear back. To be honest, I would distrust anywhere that seems so unprofessional about the core business of recruiting people!

[Cooknook]

I didn't do Art Foundation but I dropped out after AS levels and did the BTEC national diploma so already had a comprehensive portfolio and had a range of different media's etc under my belt. I would recommend it though as certainly I changed my mind on what route I wanted to pursue after doing a diverse range of coursework, and I do think networking and attending events etc is really useful. I actually did a photography degree and this wasn't part of the diploma but was an A level we did alongside to make up some credits.

I do think that those with a financial backing and safety net are more likely to be be able to dedicate the time and resource to build their portfolios and networks beyond their degree and spend time in unpaid internships or lower paid but interesting roles in the arts- but it's certainly not impossible. I think the important thing to really make clear to people considering degree is that it is much more challenging to follow a 'set' career path, and although it happens its perhaps less likely for you to earn big bucks as other graduates perhaps can just to be realistic. There are a lot of networking online events and in person events for freelancers though and people in creative industries, I'd recommend going to those to get an idea of the challenges but also the opportunities (and to become aware of some inspirational people).

I've worked very hard to establish my career but have also had pockets of luck- plenty of talented and hard working people sadly don't get as far as they've deserved. I did so by being flexible, I have done a variety of jobs before being in a place now I can comfortably sustain us freelancing with a teaching (college level) in my back pocket. I've been around the world, published online, in magazines, books, websites and other places, taught, sold my work online and as a resident artist, I've done weddings and the usual commisions and I've genuinely loved it all.

People often ask if I needed a degree or if I regret it, I absolutely recommend going personally.