Anyone with any insight into studying music at Oxbridge?

[nidgey]

We live outside the UK and thought our ds would go to university locally, partly as he has ASD and needs a bit of support in daily life. He seems to be particularly talented at music composition (also plays a couple of instruments at a high level and is involved in a number of orchestras etc). He hasn't studied composition formally as there aren't any courses locally for his age group, but has done some online masterclasses with Royal College of Music in London and the Sibelius Academy in Finland and his work was chosen to be performed publicly a number of times.

While he could study music close to home, the standards aren't super high and it's not possible to specialise in composition, so I'm considering whether he should apply for music in Cambridge or Oxford, with Cambridge seeming stronger for music. The pros are the high standards and the college system as I think it would suit him to be part of a smaller unit within a university.

If anyone has any tips whatsoever I'd really welcome them - I've looked at the application process and the required grades but I'm not sure if Cambridge offer other supports to overseas students in advance of applying. It would also be helpful to know if they ever accept students who don't achieve the requisite grades - he's very strong academically but I'm not sure if he will get the equivalent AAA.

Finally, is it ever the done thing to contact colleges directly, or is it just recommended to write to the general admissions email?

If he doesn't meet the grades then no he won't be accepted.

Not a criticism, but one tip would be not to say "at Oxbridge" at this is not what is said. "Oxbridge" sometimes as a shorthand for Oxford or Cambridge, but not "at Oxbridge".

He might do a lot better at a conservatoire or another university. We have many great colleges and universities that offer music and they won't all want the equivalent of AAA to AAA*, especially if the audition and music grades, and composition potential, are strong. Some are very nurturing places with small music departments whether or not they are strong overall.

If your son has a diagnosis, then he should be able to access something called Disabled Students Allowance during his studies. There is plenty of support for students with disabilities/neurodiversity in the UK. I'm not sure of the exact degrees and schemes in Scotland and NI as they are a bit different to England and Wales, but they also have good universities and at least one conservatoire between them, maybe more.

When DW and I (and many friends) were music students in the late 1980a, the Oxford and Cambridge courses were quite dry and academic. Good staff but for a musician focused on performing one of the music colleges (Guildhall, RCM, RAM) would be a better bet while for a mix of performing and academic work then consider places like Bristol (DW and I studied there), York, Durham, Manchester.

And forget Oxbridge with less than AAA

Oxford music dept has an open day in sept according to their website

www.music.ox.ac.uk/apply

Thanks - he's pretty dry and academic himself, and definitely more interested in composition than performance. I don't imagine him being up for living in a big city such as London or Manchester.
I've just checked the equivalent grades he'd need and actually think it's within reach.

Thanks, that's helpful as I'm not familiar with the language. He's not keen on being in a big city and so I hadn't considered anywhere else in the UK - two of his cousins went to Guildhall and another to the RCM in London and were fine, but they were up for big city life, and studied to be performing musicians rather than composers. He does have a diagnosis, yes.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

If composition is his thing rather than performance then I'd look carefully at the course content first, rather than just the university name/status. Friends of my DS have done music at Oxford, Birmingham, York and Surrey and all seemed happy and successful afterwards.

Ah, composition will be helpful in getting offers. Bristol was excellent for composition when I was there.

Sadly, many of the quality music departments are in relatively large cities. Keep in mind that the downside of a smaller place is that there won't be so much access to high quality performances outside the university itself.

Thanks - bit of a conundrum as you can imagine but I don't see him thriving in a big city and there seems to be a strong enough musical life in Cambridge and Oxford and easy access to London for concerts. I might try to see if there are other residential universities where he could specialise in composition that offer the same level of attention/care as Cambridge. As well as the high standards, it's the mix of composition specialisation and sense of security for him that's the big attraction. He really does seem very talented and is continually composing.

I feel I must have responded on another thread of yours on the same subject - but I could be wrong. You say his cousins went to Guildhall and another to the RCM in London and were fine, but they were up for big city life, and studied to be performing musicians rather than composers.

Composers need performers. And composition is - the old cliche - fiercely competitive. The best way to carve out your own space is to be where the practising performers and your competitors are. And it’s so much easier to get professional work if you’re in a place people and institutions commissioning new music go to find it.

So I suspect he’ll need a conservatoire at some point. All the Oxbridge musicians I’ve known eventually move to one for composition study. I don’t think anything matters about the specific town or city other than that it is bursting with ferociously talented musicians and performers.

(In addition to the places already named, if I were a budding composer I’d be booking an open day at Huddersfield Uni …)

That’s not to say Music at Oxford or Cambridge wouldn’t be a wonderful prospect - because of course it would!

Hi, thanks - no, I haven't posted about this before.

The idea of going to Cambridge or Oxford just struck me because a friend's daughter is home from Oxford for the holidays and was talking about how cosy and supportive she is finding the college she's in. Given his profile, we expected he'd need to stay at home while in Uni but she got me thinking - as did his assertion that he really really wants to study composition rather than performance. It's a slightly unusual situation and important that the living end of things is as secure as possible. I get your point about needing musicians - which there are plenty of locally, so maybe he should just go to the local conservatoire and do composition in his spare time. It's tricky.

Have you considered Glasgow OP?
https://www.rcs.ac.uk/?s=Composition+

I have a friend who teaches there and it is very supportive/ inclusive.

DH and I go to lots of local chamber concerts featuring students and recent graduates.

They are all genuinely wonderful musicians and often feature new compositions in their performances.

DS2 has just finished his first year at Oxford doing music. It is a broad based course and the opportunity to really specialise in one area is limited. As others have said, typically for composition you'd be looking at a conservatoire either first degree or as a postgrad study.
DS2 has really enjoyed the academic side btw.

That looks excellent, thank you although at first glance the lack of on-campus rooms would be tricky. I wish we lived in Glasgow, the course content looks perfectly in tune with what he's interested in.

Thanks, that's very helpful and might indicate it's not for DS. As you might tell, I'm not very familiar with music education (beyond the experience of the performers in the wider family). I hope your DS continues to enjoy the course.

Honestly OP Glasgow has an abundance of ( v fancy) student accommodation.
It’s renowned for being a friendly city. I think it would be well worth a look.

Does your son want the practical component? If so, Oxford and Cambridge are probably not for him as their courses tend to be more about musicology rather than music itself. I know someone who studied music at Cambridge around ten years ago and did not get her flute out of its case all term. I would look at some of the other universities or conservatoires. Birmingham has a very good reputation and don’t overlook Guildhall or Trinity in London.

He says he just wants to do composition. However, I think playing and being in orchestras is great for him in terms of skills, camaraderie and social contact, he's otherwise pretty isolated. I want him to make his own decisions but he's very young for his age so it's a fine line.

If he studies composition he’ll be obliged to get involved with all sorts of performing outfits both within and without the course curriculum - it doesn’t happen in a vacuum. (At least, not at the conservatoire I’m familiar with.)

Hi OP. I went to both Cambridge and Guildhall. I didn’t actually study music at Cambridge but most of my friends did.

Cambridge is an absolutely wonderful place for music making. Anecdotally the performance side is (or was, c10 years ago) much better than Oxford in terms of more opportunities, ensembles and performances (not sure why).

The standard of performance was actually higher at the top level than at Guildhall. And because students were generally playing for the love of it, I actually found it a lot more free than Guildhall - people are willing to put on concerts and perform new music, run through stuff with composers etc, whereas at Guildhall the norm was solitary practice in practice rooms and composers struggled to get their music performed (I lived with a composer in halls). There is a huge new music scene in Cambridge and I think your DS would love it. The small group teaching is really supportive.

As pps have said, the music degree is very broad for the first 2 years but then opportunities to specialise in the third year and I know several people who went on to do masters in composition. If composition is your DS’s thing then he could go on to do a postgrad at a conservatoire but tue Cambridge degree would set him up for life whatever he wanted to do next. Feel free to DM.

Just to add in response to the pp who knew someone who didn’t get their flute out while at Cambridge…I just find that mind boggling. I once counted and I was in over 150 concerts during my 3 years there which is a lot when you think that the terms are only 8 weeks long! At conservatoire I was in 1 per term.

(Interesting to find a twin on the thread! Though I suspect of a different vintage.)