Anyone with any insight into studying music at Oxbridge?

[nidgey]

We live outside the UK and thought our ds would go to university locally, partly as he has ASD and needs a bit of support in daily life. He seems to be particularly talented at music composition (also plays a couple of instruments at a high level and is involved in a number of orchestras etc). He hasn't studied composition formally as there aren't any courses locally for his age group, but has done some online masterclasses with Royal College of Music in London and the Sibelius Academy in Finland and his work was chosen to be performed publicly a number of times.

While he could study music close to home, the standards aren't super high and it's not possible to specialise in composition, so I'm considering whether he should apply for music in Cambridge or Oxford, with Cambridge seeming stronger for music. The pros are the high standards and the college system as I think it would suit him to be part of a smaller unit within a university.

If anyone has any tips whatsoever I'd really welcome them - I've looked at the application process and the required grades but I'm not sure if Cambridge offer other supports to overseas students in advance of applying. It would also be helpful to know if they ever accept students who don't achieve the requisite grades - he's very strong academically but I'm not sure if he will get the equivalent AAA.

Finally, is it ever the done thing to contact colleges directly, or is it just recommended to write to the general admissions email?

Good! He actually really enjoys being involved with ensembles and performing, he's just not sure he's good enough - he has never won a performance competition and didn't get a distinction in Grade 7 in his instruments (although he was close) so he took that to mean he's not set up to study performance. With composition he gets so absorbed when he's working on something we literally have to get him to remember to eat. He has never formally studied it outside a coupe of masterclasses and I paid a composer to mentor him for a few sessions a couple of years ago and they were very taken with him, and included one of his pieces in a concert programme. I am so pleased he has found this passion as his ASD makes life difficult in a number of areas.

Just to add though that both academic and performance standards at Cambridge are very high and he would be very unlikely to get an offer for Music without top grades.

Depending on his instrument Grade VIII distinction at a minimum for most of the uni level ensembles but college level more forgiving, and lots of opportunities for informal playing too.

I think he would be more suited to a university for undergrad. There’d be very few opportunities to play in an orchestra within a conservatoire. I know a friend did a conservatoire undergrad and after first year everyone was dotted all over London, making socialising harder. It sounds like he’d suit a smaller city or campus environment. Would there be a possibility of studying composition privately, if he’s not able to do that at the university, and then doing a postgrad at a conservatoire?

150! That's amazing. Thanks for the offer - I might well DM you

I sang a little bit in choirs at Oxford. There are crazy numbers of concerts/performance opportunities at Oxbridge, as @SweetforOrchestra suggests, because every college will have its own choir at the least, and possibly a couple of ensembles, plus a never-ending stream of ad hoc or long-lasting groups to perform specific styles or pieces. Walk along the main streets of either city and the railings will be covered with posters for small recitals (and plays) quite apart from the high-profile things.

Thanks, that's interesting re. the opportunities - and looks like none of the conservatoires have on-campus living. I think he'd only really suit a campus environment (or to stay living at home). We can look into private study - a pretty established composer who also teaches compositional analysis and music at university has offered to mentor him for just transport costs or for free online so that might's one way to address it, but it might be bit ad hoc and I'd love ds to be able to be with other composition students as it could help with social skills etc.

You raise an interesting issue, @nidgey … Obviously you are thinking of a particular condition - but my experience of composers is that they are almost invariably incredibly sensitive - and yet have to develop a very thick skin and sharp entrepreneurial elbows in order to survive and thrive.

It’s much worse for women, but still a hugely stressful and demanding ‘beginning of career’ for men as well.

I think what I’m saying is that regardless of any diagnosed condition, it is not a gentle career. It’s constant striving and rejection and seeing your peers sweep ahead of you sometimes. It can mean months spent on work that falls apart, despite your best efforts. Plagiarism and betrayal by people you thought of as friends. Wondering why your fellow student with the famous surname suddenly has a piece in a broadcast concert … It is not easy, and I doubt you will be able to protect an actively practising composer from these vicissitudes.

Yep, I imagine he'd need to be entrepreneurial, good at networking, very strategic...all the things he isn't. I don't know what to say to your post really other than I've explained all that to him but it's his absolute passion so while I've a horrible feeling that I'm being very irresponsible not to try to talk him out of it at the same time it's almost unstoppable. Like a lot of autistic people, he is hyper-focused and not easily dissuaded.
A couple of years ago I really hoped he'd aim for a job in an orchestra and compose in his spare time as I think an orchestral job would suit his personality much better but - like I said - he doesn't think he's good enough.

What instrument does he play OP?

My friends daughter graduated from the Conservatoire in Wales. Perhaps you could enquirer about it.

I’ve also got a DC who’s just finished first year music at Oxford (wonder if our DC know each other @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats ?!)

I would disagree that Cambridge has more and better performance opportunities than Oxford.

My best advice to you, @nidgey, is to get your DS to open days at both and have a good look round and ask questions. Also have a careful study of the course outline, and see if your DS is attracted to it.

I’m not sure of Cambridge’s standard offer but Oxford’s is AAA. Most of the students have at least grade 8, as mentioned above, but I don’t think that’s a requirement- worth checking. I do know that it’s a less competitive subject to get in to (approx 50% acceptance rate) but whether that’s because it’s self-selecting, I don’t know.

I think the collegiate system is potentially more nurturing than a non-collegiate university but that will depend on the particular vibe of the individual college and tutors/supervisors.

Good luck!

I’ve also got a DC who’s just finished first year music at Oxford (wonder if our DC know each other @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats?!)
Very likely as there are only about 60 odd music students per year 😁.

I do think you should consider conservatoires. Although they are mostly city based they are much much smaller environments and it's a very personal educational experience. Quite high levels of autism in the conservatoire student populations in general as well so they are used to coping with additional needs.

Although they may not have on campus living (which Oxford and Cambridge don't either really) most have student accommodation a short walk away and students with additional needs are normally allowed to live in halls for the whole time.

Actually that’s a good point. Conservatoire culture is very different to the strict hierarchies of the academic world. From observation conservatoire tutors are far more understanding with regard to raw emotion shown by students - they get it. And some boundaries are more fluid - such that students may offer empathy and support to tutors undergoing creative stress or nerves. If you’re lucky you can encounter a truly lovely atmosphere, if you have the resilience for the competition.

He's taking grade 8 in french horn and cello this Autumn, grade 5 piano more for fun, strongest instrument is horn.

Eek competition ! Maybe he should do some sort of musically-inclined gap year and then go to all the open days etc next year. It would be for entry in 2024. We just never considered the UK before.

Just to clarify I meant the uni level ensembles expect grade 8 standard, not the music degree, but do check the college and faculty requirements carefully.

A minimum level of piano is also needed for Cambridge (probably Oxford as well, I haven’t checked) and that also varies between colleges (at my own college it was grade 8 piano).

If he plays the horn he will always be in demand in orchestras though!

Some of the conservatoires offer a one year programme/gap year programme so you could look at that as a trial run.

My daughter studied music at Oxford. The first year was pretty broad but there were opportunities for specialising in the later years.

Many go on to do a postgrad year at conservatoire, either specialising in composition or performance. The advantage of that is that you get a 'normal' degree which keeps your options open and probably gives you greater flexibility for the future. At 17/18 many young people will not be completely sure that they definitely want a career in music and I can think of at least two of my daughters' music friends who are now lawyers.

As for performing, again as others have said there are masses of opportunities. In her first year my daughter played one instrument in one orchestra and another in a second. She gave up both after the first year because she was finding it difficult to balance those commitments with her main activity, which was singing in one of chapel choirs 3-4 evenings a week.

The academic requirement for music at Oxford is AAA, which might be a safer bet for Cambridge which now wants an A*. I suspect neither will compromise. Both interview (don't know about Cambridge but last year music interviews were done remotely) and will be interested to see compositions from anyone wanting to specialise in that.

Other than the entry requirement I don't think there is much to choose between Oxford and Cambridge (when my daughter applied there was no difference). We went to open days at both and my daughter preferred Oxford.

I'd definitely recommend open days, though obviously that's harder given that you are not based in the UK. Other than that, I'd say it's worth giving it a go. Nothing venture, nothing gain.

Good luck, whatever he decides.

" If he plays the horn he will always be in demand in orchestras though!"

Not a guarantee, I'm afraid. My brother said there were about 16 top notch horn players in his year at Cambridge (he might have been including the years either side). The supply of wind players can fluctuate from year to year. However with cello as well he'd be bound to get plenty of playing - the more string players the merrier.

Hi OP. The good news is that Music at Cambridge has one if the highest acceptance rates (over 40%). I imagine Oxford is similar.

Just a word of caution on the grade requirements though - as pps have said, it's AAA minimum at Oxford and AstarAA at Cambridge but, the reality is, most accepted will have significantly higher grades than this. I think it's only a few percent that have AAA (and possibly they have mitigating factors / contextual circumstances) - most students will achieve three A stars.

I know 2 DC doing Music at Cambridge and they literally live and breathe it, are well beyond grade 8 in several instruments; compose the lot.

However, the only sure way to not get in is to not apply! My advice would be to give it a go, but keep it in perspective and have other options. Don't worry about ASD at all - loads are ASD there - it's not unusual at all. There is a lot of support too.