Economics or Physics A level for best degree options

[MadamBuxton]

I’d be interested in getting views on this because there are probably factors I haven’t thought of…

My DS has just sat his GCSEs and needs to finalise his A level choices. He had decided on Maths, Economics and Biology but is having second thoughts.

Maths is definite as it’s his best subject, he likes it and is a good facilitator for lots of degrees. He is a good all-rounder and got 8/9 in all his mocks but generally prefers sciences and isn’t keen on arts subjects. His thinking with Econ/Bio is keeping things broad and Biology is probably his favourite science subject. He has taken economics GCSE and enjoyed it.

He mentioned recently that one of the main reasons for choosing economics A level is because he might want to go the finance/business/accountancy route for a degree and career. When I pointed out to him that I don’t think there are any degrees where economics a level is essential (even an economics degree although I don’t know if it would be wise to go into it ‘blind’) he was surprised and started wondering about doing physics instead.

Ultimately he should probably do whichever subject he will enjoy most and do best at but without a crystal ball what would others’ thought process be?

My ds has also chosen economics, maths and biology. He is a good all rounder and wants to go into the accountancy / finance job market eventually. You can't study economics at many unis without maths and he had to choose between an arts subject like history or a science so went for biology which he enjoys the most. My dd has been through a 6th form and it's so important to choose subjects they enjoy and could do well in, my ds could have also chosen French but he isn't sure he could get a high grade as not a native speaker etc.

Physics is better respected. A level economics is not necessary for a career in finance.

I would wait until uni to do economics. However, if he’s interested in finance, look into getting him a paid degree through one of the big 4. Or he could do econ a level and go straight to a training program. No uni, but paid internships with full accounting quals. If money is tight, it’s a great option into audit or accounting. He will be ahead of his age group financially too.

Economics is a good A level. It will open his eyes to how economically illiterate the vast majority of our politicians making decisions about the economy are. It also good for any sort of civil service posts at the UN or doing international aid/ trade relations. It also is very good for informing better personal financial decisions.

If he’s not going to be an engineer or Astro-physicist, physics is fun but will have next to no application to his career or personal life.

Who is Physics better respected by ?

Physics is a far more versatile choice at A level. It is also better regarded. Physics and maths is a stronger combo than Economics and maths, for sure. I doubt there's a degree course in the country that requires economics A level.

Admissions offices for courses that require strong mathematical abilities, eg Economics.

What does he want to do at university? If it's Economics then makes sense to do Economics A level and also quite a few courses require Further Maths.

Any evidence to back that claim up @5pot6pot7potmore ?

The problem is he doesn’t yet know - just wants to keep plenty of options open.

Maybe he could start on 4 and drop 1 to see which he enjoys most.

Mine did maths, comp sci and history.

History was great, the skills learned around critical thinking, analysing source material, academic writing, and planning the extended essay thing were really useful. For kids who aren't sure, it's good to have a balance across STEM and humanities IMHO. So I'd probably go with economics over physics.

Unfortunately the option blocks have physics and economics in the same one so he can’t do that.

Admissions offices for courses that require strong mathematical abilities, eg Economics.

Bollocks. He's doing Maths. No need to prove he's good at maths by taking another subject.

Unless he's going to do physics or engineering stick with exon

Economics even. Easier to get a good grade in compared to physics, though obvs some overlap between physics and maths.

Hi, OP —

I am a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor. As you imply that you know, but others may not, Economics A Level is not required to do Economics at degree level. Maths is the key facilitator.

I assume there is a good reason your DS isn’t thinking about Further Maths, so I won’t go there

Physics pairs well with Maths to open the whole of Engineering and it is a good combination for Computer Science. (No one requires CS A Level for CS.). You say that Maths is the best subject of your DS. I assume he has thought about, and rejected, the idea of doing a straight Maths degree. What about a Joint Honours Maths degree, perhaps involving Business, Management, Finance, Economics or Physics for the other component?

If he is interested in Maths, I would suggest focusing his applications on Schools where only a minority of incoming students have done FM. Otherwise the curriculum will be geared to those who have completed it and it can be disheartening and confidence-threatening for the others.

But mainly pupils who will become mathematicians know their own minds. I suspect that your DS would enjoy using his mathematical talents in a maths-adjacent subject, or a Joint Hons programme. He has a while to figure out which one. Meanwhile even if he ultimately wants to do Economics my vote is for Physics. It opens more doors

Thanks for sharing your insight. Very interesting point about considering Maths at places where many students don’t have further maths. Maths so far has come very easily to him (grade 9 with no revision in his mocks) so if he continues to do well at A level I have wondered if it’s a mistake to not do FM because I assumed this would effectively close the door on a maths degree. He has ruled out FM so far because he wouldn’t want to narrow down by having it as one of his 3 but doesn’t want to do it as a 4th because (as he sees it) there’s no need to do 4. In your experience would students applying for something like maths with management typically have FM? I could definitely see him going that route but he wouldn’t like being at a disadvantage if most have FM. not sure if I should persuade him to at least try FM but he’s a stubborn bugger!

A hugely interesting question. Every university in the land will offer on 3 ALs but some do not like FM as one of only 3. (Some are fine with it.) On the whole it is a mistake to think that lower grades in 4 ALs bests higher grades in 3, although some places may give you a bit of a break on a 4 AL offer.

DH is a Russell Group maths professor. He is not involved with admissions, but has the impression that students in the business-orientated Joint Hons programmes at his place are less likely to have done FM, whereas his personal tutees tend to be on the MMath programme and almost all have FM. Single Hons and Joint Hons have separate compulsory Year 1 modules. The Joint Hons is less intense as there is considerable external work.

Statistics are available online for FM % year on year for each School as a whole. I don’t remember whether it is broken out by degree programme.

I read Economics at Cambridge and although Economics was not officially required I did not know anyone without it. Nowadays both Maths and FM are common to have and quite a few Economics courses ask for FM, the ones that don't are probably more essay based if that makes a difference. A joint course with Economics FM would be less common. I think you can get stats by uni and degree for most common A levels.
https://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/apply/ba-economics/course-requirements

As ever, there are trade-offs:

Taking Phys keeps different options open at degree level (eg Engineering, Phys) but it can be a demanding A level (esp alongside content heavy Bio) and means his selection lacks an essay component, if that matters to him (and accepting Bio has some questions requiring extended answers). If his interest is piqued more by Econ then better an A in Econ than, say, a hard won B in Phys.

Taking Econ is not necessary for a career in business or, strictly, for an Econ degree. However, taking it allows him to keep his interest alive in that area (Maths can feel very abstract) and, as others say, would make Econ at uni easier and keep open some courses like Management at U of Bath which likes essay as well as quant subjects in the mix - a very specific example but to highlight that Econ in the mix also opens other doors vs Phys, not because it is Econ but because it can be regarded as an essay A level eg see LSE definition.

On FM, it is obviously not a subject to be undertaken lightly but, as a 4th, could be dropped if necessary in light of experience. My DC were not as strong as yours at GCSE Maths but two took it and found it really supported Maths and their chosen physical science and Geog (as logical thinking really tightened up their 12 marker answers). Further Stats and Algorithm Maths also pushed knowledge into areas of Econ and CS despite not doing those A levels; it opened my eyes to realising FM is, for the right DC, a very versatile subject and not 'just more maths'.

Firstly, I am biased as an Economics teacher, so there's that. Although I am married to a Physicist!

Economics degree courses are very competitive these days. No you don't "need" Economics to apply but it's a bit bonkers in my opinion to commit to 3 or 4 years of high level, expensive study of something you don't know if you have a genuine interest in.

Plus you'll need to do a fair bit of reading to make a convincing UCAS application anyway.

I'd take him to a big Waterstones and find a decent textbook for each subject plus the "Big Ideas Explained Simply" Dorling Kindersley books for Economics and Physics. See which set of ideas genuinely grabs him.

Also - practical point - if he has aptitude in Economics it's probably a little easier to get a top grade in it than Physics. Although perhaps Physics courses are less competitive to get into - I don't know.

I think I'd go with Maths, Physics, Economics to keep lots of options open.

Finance/Business/Management/Accountancy courses tend to have somewhat lower offers so that's not such an issue with subject choice.

This.

my DS did this combo and bitterly regrets it as he’s convinced he’d have got higher grades with “easier” A levels. And yes I know some subjects MN kids can do in their sleep so they are easy to them etc.

Be aware w Bio and Chem in particular you are up against all the medics who need A*.

OP, my son sounds exactly like yours, in being a good all rounder, and he likewise got mostly 8s and 9s at GCSE. He was unsure of careers beyond knowing he wanted to work in finance or engineering (he definitely didn't want medical or humanities), so he ended up chosing A level Maths, Physics and Economics which he thought gave him the broadest choice.

It was during Uni open days where he explored Physics/Engineering related degrees and decided they weren't for him, so that left Maths or Finance. He toyed with the "Maths with Physics", "Maths with Economics", etc. He was predicted A*s at A level, so was looking at Uni courses requiring straight A's, which discounted most business, economics, accounting, where the entry requirements were usually a step lower, and he wanted the "best" and broadest he could get. He didn't want to do a "Maths" degree on it's own as he isn't really that excited/interest in Maths especially the heavily theoretical stuff - he is a very practical person and not good with abstract concepts!

He finally came upon "Financial Maths" which is fundamentally a Maths degree, a Bsc, weighted towards financial aspects, and included modules for economics, accounting, computing, etc., but more than 50% were "maths" modules, mostly statistics, probability, etc. He barely had to do any work for the two economics modules as he'd done the core content in his A Level, so just basically "half watching the lectures", a bit of revision and doing the course work, essays, etc rather than actually learning the two modules. Likewise he found the accounting/business modules pretty easy and not too time consuming. It gave him more time to concentrate on what he called "hard maths" modules which, to be honest, he did struggle with.

It's worked out well for him, he's just heard he got a first, and he starts on a really good actuarial graduate scheme with one of the UK's biggest insurance firms this Summer. So, A level and degree choices turned out spot on for him.

OP, please suggest the "Financial Maths" degree to your DS, it sounds right up his street. Also, economics will be far more useful than Physics, and makes Uni life easier in not having to spend too much time studying for their economics modules (that will be the same for other degrees such as accounting and finance etc).

Do what he will likely get a better grade in. Play the game.
Beware Biology. DS2 got 9's at GCSE and has just done Maths, Biology and Chemistry. Biology has been far the hardest. Quite different from GCSE, loads of content and tricky mark schemes. And yes, lots of potential medics in his classes needing A's.