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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

What should DS be aiming for in terms of Uni courses

64 replies

Mumski45 · 19/05/2023 12:57

DS is year 12 and considering his uni application. He is doing Maths Fr maths Physics and Chemisrty A level and is considering maths or engineering degrees, maths is currently the favourite. He is doing Maths A level this year and hoping for A star. He has GCSE's 9999998888. We don't have predicted grades yet but his year end exam results were Physics A star and Chemistry A (3 marks of A star).

He is expecting his predicted grade for Fr Maths will be A or A star.

He is looking at the top tier Unis for Maths. However I don't think he has much in the way of extracurricular stuff for his personal statement.

So far he has
A student job at Booths supermarket
An NCS course
Plays Rugby for school
Work experience at pharmaceutical distributor and granite supplier.
Mentoring younger kids in Maths at school
Supervises mentoring group after school
Some participation in extra maths activities at school but not sure exactly what
Will be a prefect in Year 13.

Please could I ask advice on whether this would be enough or if he should be doing more now whilst he has a bit of time over the summer and if so what.

TIA

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumski45 · 19/05/2023 12:58

Sorry about the bold- couldn't work out how to get rid of it.

OP posts:
redskylight · 19/05/2023 13:01

He needs to show passion and genuine interest for his subject - not that he has loads of unrelated extracurricular activities (and your definition of "not much" is clearly vastly different to mine).

Google supracurricular maths activities for things that he could be looking at.

clary · 19/05/2023 13:10

Yes agree, while playing rugby for school is great, the key in your PS is to focus on things that relate to the degree.

dd wrote about her passion for books and how it started; ds wrote something about being a biological researcher!

No idea what would be good for maths but the mentoring is deffo worth a mention. Dd tutored her subject in yr 12 and 13 which she spoke about.

Livinghappy · 19/05/2023 13:11

extracurricular stuff for his personal statement

Top tier universities are interested in the academics so competitions he has entered and books he has read. I do however think having extra curricular is good for a student before Uni as it makes them cope better with student life.

First starting place is to look at courses, assume he has access to Unifrog in school? If he is interested in Oxbridge, Warwick, Imperial then be will need to sit MAT or STEP. MAT is later this year so he should start looking at the exam and practicingI imagine his school has already started this. All students to the highly competitive Unis will have Astars predicted so these additional tests are required.

Otherwise it's a case of making a list and deciding if he wants to study near home, campus, city it smaller location then book the open days which available from now.

universityhelp · 19/05/2023 13:12

I think that's loads! But for Oxford and Cambridge, I don't think he needs to put down his student job, rugby, NCS course or being a prefect. Does he want to do maths at Cambridge? We went to an event there and supercurriculars are things like not just watching documentaries or reading books (this is too passive), but writing about what you learn from them and what they lead you to go on to do. Others mentioned were going to public lectures, making a podcast or writing a blog.

rockywilderness · 19/05/2023 13:18

Extra curriculars are great for him as a person but won't make too much difference on his statement. Take a look online for examples of successful personal statements for the uni's he's considering and you'll see the focus is on the passion for the subject and maybe a line or two at the bottom to illustrate his wider achievements.

Livinghappy · 19/05/2023 13:20

His A levels will enable him to apply for Maths, Physics,Natural Sciences, Engineering,Computing at a minimum so he needs to be thinking of what course he wants to do and then University.

His school/college should have already started the discussions about this as if he makes an early application the deadline is in October.

Blanketpolicy · 19/05/2023 13:27

From our research when ds applied last year unis are not interested in anything unrelated to the degree.

You only have so many words/lines (unless they have changed the PS to a form this year already) and you will run out of space so quickly, you won't have space to mention anything meaningful about unrelated jobs or rugby etc.

Original poster
Mumski45 · 19/05/2023 13:29

Thanks all for some really useful information. I agree he needs to do more Maths related activities and it's useful to know how much of the other stuff is worthwhile mentioning. They have just started looking at this at school and there are lots of emails coming out now about possible early deadlines. School are running a trip to Oxford open day which he wanted to go on but it was so popular that names were picked out of a hat and he didn't get on. I'm happy to take him myself. I will encourage him to research the supracurricular maths activities as it looks like these would be useful.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 19/05/2023 14:27

Former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor here, OP.

I note the employment history of your DS. It is heavier than average. Not a criticism, quite the opposite! Therefore I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about his circumstances? Ate you city, suburbsn, rural? Does DS work because it helps the family finances, because you and/or his father believe he should, or because he prefers to? Is he at a state or indepedent school? Are there any contextual flags?

I never ask these questions and I am uncomfortable doing so. But he sounds exceptional and I’d like to get it right.

HappiDaze · 19/05/2023 14:39

Looks like he can do pretty much anything with all these excellent grades, predictive grades and tons of activities etc.

My DS sake Yr and same A levels and predicted grades has visited Oxbridge a few times and has spoken with current students etc from his current and other schools and was told none of these extra activities are relevant just be yourself and your knowledge and enthusiasm will show through

Phphion · 19/05/2023 15:05

Most of the universities he seems to be interested in provide detailed guidance on their websites on what they look for in personal statements. He must follow this guidance (you would be surprised how many people do not).

clary · 19/05/2023 15:09

poetryandwine · 19/05/2023 14:27

Former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor here, OP.

I note the employment history of your DS. It is heavier than average. Not a criticism, quite the opposite! Therefore I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about his circumstances? Ate you city, suburbsn, rural? Does DS work because it helps the family finances, because you and/or his father believe he should, or because he prefers to? Is he at a state or indepedent school? Are there any contextual flags?

I never ask these questions and I am uncomfortable doing so. But he sounds exceptional and I’d like to get it right.

Interesting - actually op only lists one paying job there (work exp likely to be through school perhaps, mentoring ditto I imagine?)

All my dc had paper rounds, dd also tutored and ds2 was also a football ref, so they had two jobs. Mainly bc money and also independence. But at least one job was very usual for friends from about age 15 or so.

redskylight · 19/05/2023 16:40

clary · 19/05/2023 15:09

Interesting - actually op only lists one paying job there (work exp likely to be through school perhaps, mentoring ditto I imagine?)

All my dc had paper rounds, dd also tutored and ds2 was also a football ref, so they had two jobs. Mainly bc money and also independence. But at least one job was very usual for friends from about age 15 or so.

Show quote history

Yes I also thought the student job in a supermarket was unremarkable (don't think DD knows anyone in Y12 who doesn't have a job ...).

I'd assumed (mainly because the OP thinks her fairly extensive list of extra curricular is not much) that the DC goes to a grammar or selective private school and hence she's comparing with a lot of bright, highly motivated peers. She should remember that this is not the case everywhere (the only thing my DD has on her list is her tutoring job, though granted this is partly because she is disabled and simply getting through the day is often enough challenge in itself.)

Original poster
Mumski45 · 19/05/2023 17:16

@poetryandwine the booths job he has had since he finished GCSE's and whilst it pays well the reason for it was to get him used to a working environment and making commitments more than financial necessity. It was initially suggested by us but he enjoys it and is learning a lot. The work experience opportunities both came from family friends and were not initially paid. However he managed to make himself very useful and was paid a 'bonus' at the end of 2 weeks by one of them and has been invited back if he ever wants to go again.

He is at a state grammar school and there will be no contextual flags.

@HappiDaze Thanks, I would hope that this is how it would work but maybe I read to much on here about how competitive it can be. He wants to go to the Oxford Open day in June so I will encourage him to ask the right questions.

@Phphion thanks for the tip about the specific guidance. I will tell him to look into this.

@redskylight it is the same at DS's school - most of them have a weekend job of some sort for a bit of spending money and the experience so I don't think this is particularly remarkable.
Yes you are correct in that he is at a grammar school and surrounded by high achievers.

My reason for saying it is 'not much' is that I thought a lot of it could be irrelevant as it is not related to the course he would want to do. In my view only the mentoring and "maths related competitions" which he has been a bit vague about would be relevant to his course if he chose Maths and @Blanketpolicy has the same view.

Thanks again for all the contributions they are all really helpful. I love Mumsnet for this type of advice.

OP posts:
eggsbenedict23 · 19/05/2023 17:33

I have this vague feeling Oxbridge don't like people doing an A-level a year early. If he's considered maths/engineering. I'd recommend Oxbridge (but moreso Oxford for maths as Cambridge maths seems insane to get in), Imperial (STEM confused uni) and then maybe Warwick and UCL. I feel Warwick is better at maths than UCL.

HappiDaze · 19/05/2023 17:38

It's normal though to do Maths A Level early if you're also taking Further Maths at some 6th Form institutions.

HappiDaze · 19/05/2023 17:45

Obviously you'd then do FM A Level at the normal time in Yr 13

pimplebum · 19/05/2023 17:49

He is 12 maybe won't want to go to uni , my brightest student did a much sort after apprenticeship

redskylight · 19/05/2023 17:59

pimplebum · 19/05/2023 17:49

He is 12 maybe won't want to go to uni , my brightest student did a much sort after apprenticeship

He's in Year 12 i.e. 16 or 17, and will have to apply for University very soon if he wants to start straight after A Levels.
So whilst he might yet change his mind (my DS did between this stage of Year 12 and UCAS application time) it sounds as though university is a strong possibility.

eggsbenedict23 · 19/05/2023 18:03

HappiDaze · 19/05/2023 17:38

It's normal though to do Maths A Level early if you're also taking Further Maths at some 6th Form institutions.

Cambridge don't like it though.

FluffyHamster · 19/05/2023 18:07

Honestly, he has more than enough extra curricular for his PS - and as others have said, it would be best to focus on the Maths-related stuff, if that's what he decides to do.
DS did computer science, but his PS included Maths Olympiad and coding competitions he'd done, as well as a National Cyber Security course one summer. He was never asked about any of them (had no interviews) but got all his offers.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 19/05/2023 18:20

I agree with the suggestion of doing more supercurricular stuff. The extracurricular stuff is fantastic for personal development but not of great interest to top universities.

I'm another one who is confused by the suggestion that the dc's work experience is somehow exceptional. Not having a go at the OP's dc at all but it sounds pretty average to me - lots of kids have part time jobs in retail/hospitality etc, and it's pretty normal for kids to do periods of work experience. What the OP's dc has done is perfectly respectable but I'm not getting quite what is unusual about it!Confused

eggsbenedict23 · 19/05/2023 18:35

What's good for maths outside of COWI (Cambridge Oxford Warwick imperial)

TizerorFizz · 20/05/2023 01:20

@Mumski45 You initially mentioned engineering and everyone has talked about maths. Is he really interested in engineering? If so, what sort of engineering? Does he have any idea about the different engineering disciplines and how they might align with his interests? The usual universities have popped up! Have you booked the Oxford open day and subject talks? So many other great engineering unis trump Oxford! Look at Sheffield, Southampton, Bristol and Manchester. Plus plenty of others too! Imperial is not a requirement for a great career and not Oxbridge either! MEng is a must though.

My DH has employed many engineers. Mostly civil and structural engineers. There’s lots of work for civil engineers who are working on environmental design. Then there’s mechanical, chemical and electronic engineers as well as aerospace, automotive and more! If he’s really interested in engineering, find out why!! What gives him the interest? What branch of engineering would he study? Find out what makes him tick! All will
use his maths.

Some pointers: Is he interested in making things work? Does he take things apart and reconstruct them making changes to the design? Has he thought about how engineers would make a skyscraper stand up? Is he interested in the built environment?What about the benefit to us of having a clean reliable unpolluted water supply? Is he interested in the environment or cars or planes? Narrow it down and then write about interests and hobbies that support that choice.

He then needs to see if he can work shadow in an engineering consultancy or similar. Look up who is around local to you. Where are you?

Do not just list what he’s read. Think about what has inspired him and what he has learned about engineering . Also avoid the word “passion”. Overused and largely untrue. Genuine interest is enough! Rugby and work are great but it’s not the same as explaining why you went to be an engineer with hobbies and genuine interests that feed into that career.