What should DS be aiming for in terms of Uni courses

[Mumski45]

DS is year 12 and considering his uni application. He is doing Maths Fr maths Physics and Chemisrty A level and is considering maths or engineering degrees, maths is currently the favourite. He is doing Maths A level this year and hoping for A star. He has GCSE's 9999998888. We don't have predicted grades yet but his year end exam results were Physics A star and Chemistry A (3 marks of A star).

He is expecting his predicted grade for Fr Maths will be A or A star.

He is looking at the top tier Unis for Maths. However I don't think he has much in the way of extracurricular stuff for his personal statement.

So far he has
A student job at Booths supermarket
An NCS course
Plays Rugby for school
Work experience at pharmaceutical distributor and granite supplier.
Mentoring younger kids in Maths at school
Supervises mentoring group after school
Some participation in extra maths activities at school but not sure exactly what
Will be a prefect in Year 13.

Please could I ask advice on whether this would be enough or if he should be doing more now whilst he has a bit of time over the summer and if so what.

TIA

IME most lucrative ones in the UK for graduates are. Off topic as it may not be what this DC wants or indeed most graduates want but please enlighten me otherwise. It is very rare for even a very talented lucky entrepreneur to make over 100k in the first year after graduating.

The OP mentioned her DS having a lucrative career. That is not the same aspiration as earning 100k+ in a graduate role.

I may be biased as someone who read physics but I’d advise him to do some reading to confirm he would enjoy uni maths. I’d say that you would want maths to be a passion and if it’s not, lean to something more applied.

Maths is, by definition, the most abstract course you can do. maths/physics/computing open the same jobs up except mathematician. Engineering arguably opens up more jobs - though I’m not sure you can go from engineering to Quant.

I went to of COWL - everyone has those grades going in but people left with 2:2s or no degrees at all and they worked hard. There’s a lot of maths you cannot brute force with effort. I had maths friends who loved a level and ended up with 2:2s who used to laugh at how easy my physics worksheets were. (Will say that those with 2:2s all have great jobs 10 years later. Once at work, the aptitude/attitude that got them Astars made them very promotable.)

of course, this is anecdotal and should be dismissed due to sampling bias. But really - find out if he loves Group Theory.

He should have a think about what kind of lucrative career he wants. My son has a friend who is a quant in London and makes quite a lot of money (I don't know the sum but apparently it is a lot). He could also law after a maths (or engineering degree although maths is a 3 year degree and engineering could be longer so may be if he is keen to get the money sooner maths may be better). Accountancy is another option - 3 years of post grad exams for ICAEW but you start earning immediately you graduate and do exams along side (my son's other friend is doing that (and my twins are trainee solicitors)).

Actuary, Investment banking. All the other various banking jobs.

he should have a look at the linked in profiles of newly hired people in the careers where he might want to work to see where they went to university and what they did.

Some of the most successful big4 accountants I know studied history.

IMO what opens up that key first grad door is a first - and even better - with prises and academic achievements outside of the course. There are employers / further courses who don’t hire beneath a first. The key to a first is to love the subject. My advice is to not do maths by default if another quantitative subject excites him more.

Get him to have a look at the Gresham College website. They do a lot of free mathematical lectures. There's one on Wednesday on The Mathematical Vision of Maryam Mirzakhani. It's sold out in person but he could attend online. Next month there's one on Alan Turing. There are also lots of old lectures he can watch. He can write a paragraph about one of those if he finds it interesting.

lastdayatschool, my point was that choosing engineering rather than maths still leaves open even the top end of the ‘lucrative’ scale (currently city careers) but also allows other interesting options. He should choose what best fits his range of talents and interests for his degree.

I suggest he looks carefully at the Imperial website (even if he does not want to go to London, it probably offers as complete a range as any) and look at all the available options. Is there anything: nanotechnology; biomedical engineering; materials science, that appeals. It is far easier to study a subject that lights a passion, and maths particularly can be torture if you don’t get a real joy from solving problems. (Though DS, who studied, effectively, financial maths, found University maths more interesting than A level.)

MN is pretty obsessed by City jobs. Things will change within his lifetime, and anyway in demand skills can generate huge salaries (DD receives Imperial recruitment emails after taking an intercalated degree in biomedical engineering at Imperial: some starting salaries are impressive, whilst a cousin has received great offers from Silicon Valley after studying materials science), and the City recruits engineers and econometricians as well as maths grads.

As for the PS and extracurricular, swing it around and think what Universities are looking for (and read the guidance on each University website.) An active balanced life beyond 4A levels suggests good time management, resilience and maturity. So more an indication that he has the skills to cope with a demanding degree that what he has actually done. Imperial in particular does a lot of group working and assessment. Leadership and the ability to work with others are useful skills.

I should add that many specialist engineering courses have a common first year, so no need for an immediate decision.

prep the placement exams.

Last year my DS with a similar profile, with good super curriculars did not get an interview at Cambridge because he bottled the engineering placement exam. He fell in love that summer between year 12-13 and did not revise. He’s at Imperial, which had an easier placement exam and is still in love so all is well.

It came down to the placement exam for him.

A Maths degree isn't really a requirement for "top" financial jobs. Engineering and science degrees are just about equivalent and probably a lot more interesting.

My son is just coming to the end of a Financial Maths degree and hasn't really enjoyed it and has had to do a lot of extra work to keep up as he's not a "natural" Mathematician despite getting 9 at GCSE and A at A level (along with A in Physics). He didn't want to do a degree in Maths on it's own, and pondered long and hard about doing Maths with Physics or Maths with Computing instead, but thought that Financial Maths was a better "shoe in" for financial jobs. In the end, he's regretted it as it was still very "theoretical Maths" heavy being roughly 2/3rd Maths and 1/3 finance whereas he says that Maths with Physics was more 50:50. He also had to endure some Maths modules which assumed prior knowledge from earlier modules which he hadn't done so that was extra private learning he had to do which other students had already done via lectures etc which made things harder for him.

In the end, he's got an Actuarial graduate scheme job with a big insurance firm starting this Summer. He's already in group chats with others on the scheme and none of them have a "Maths" degree - they're a mix of science, engineering, and a few "Maths with....." students. Now he knows that "Maths" wasn't a core requirement of "maths-heavy" jobs, he does wish he'd done Physics instead.

Did he not take further maths at A-level?

His only paid job is the booths one?

I mean, OP. Surely he can't be more perfect as a candidate. What else is he supposed to do??

I suggest if he's had as much rl experience as he's had he will.find a pure maths degree very dull.