What is the No1 economics course in the UK? (In terms of academic rigour and graduate prospects)

[eggsbenedict23]

DS is in year 12 and last month attended the LSE open day. He liked the place and the department seemed nice. He told me (and showed me the talk recordings) that one of the professors giving the talk was saying they are a "top tier research university" etc. DS told me the professor briefly mentioned something along the lines of "we write the textbooks the second tier universities use". Apparently the professor mentioned Oxford and Cambridge as being 2nd tier.

To me it seemed as if the professor is arrogant.

I would agree with the prof'; the LSE is the best and the most respected institution we have for Economics.

@VioletladyGrantham on the level of Oxford and Cambridge? Or better than Oxbridge?

(Also nice to see a Downton Abbey fan here!)

LSE is as competitive as Oxbridge and of course LSE will say they are the best as will the others.

The reality is some Oxbridge offer holders won't get into LSE and vice versa.

Just asked academic husband and he said that LSE probably has a better REF than Oxford or Cambridge because they have so many economists that their research output is bigger than either Oxford/Cambridge, but that doesn't necessarily mean a undergraduate would get a better primary degree. There are lots of different criteria.

Personally I would have thought that Oxbridge would be more fun and you'd meet a more varied group of people at your college and make friends with people doing more diverse subjects, as well as the clubs and societies. I think you'd have a more rounded experience there than at LSE.

For Economics yes, he told u the truth.

For Economics at LSE it’s 7.4% acceptance rate. Oxford has Economics and management at Oxford is 5.8%. So Oxford is more competitive. Location is everything though!

I suspect your child will get a job whether they go to LSE, or Oxford, or Cambridge.
This is one of the aims of university, yes?

I also suspect that like everyone on the planet, your child will continue to learn beyond the university stage.

Splitting hairs here

To me it seemed as if the professor is arrogant.

There's a very high probability of that. It doesn't alter the fact that what he said might be true, though. The most arrogant person I've ever met also happened to be a brilliant scientist.

And university is about more than choosing the ‘top’ one. A few of my son’s friends are not happy at LSE and wish they had left London.

@EmptyItNow what do they not like about LSE? Do they live at home?

I agree with @Passerillage The critical mass of top researchers at LSE is unique in the UK. The clue is in the name. This is not to say that an undergraduate will necessarily receive a better education there.

In the last admissions cycle there was a lot on this Board about how LSE, Cambridge, Warwick and UCL were tops for a highly mathematical approach to Economics. The implication by omission was that the Oxford approach is somewhat less maths intensive - this is in no way a criticism. But interesting, I think. Does anyone know more?

In terms of undergraduate economics, I wouldn’t say research matters the most so oxbridge may be better than LSE for undergrad teaching, especially as teaching is more individualised (e.g. tutorials). Plus oxbridge may be a better overall experience as you get to mix with people doing a variety of subjects, experience activities and events more unique to Oxbridge (e..g formal halls) and if you don’t live in London, it is probably cheaper to go to Oxford or Cambridge than to live in London. I have heard from relatives at LSE economics, that it can be harder to make friends as often the international students stay together and often many students do not turn up for lectures.
However, for postgrad economics, LSE may well be better due to research quality.

This is just my opinion though, and any differences will be minor as Oxford Cambridge and LSE are all top schools for undergrad economics. Most students are extremely happy to even get one of them.

@poetryandwine DS sat and listened to how they've revamped the economics curriculum. He seemed very excited.

No. It’s just that there are so many overseas students in some places, especially like top places like LSE. It is hard to establish a social life with students who want to go out, enjoy freshers week etc. Students come from all over the world and understandably often want to hang out with their own crew. And they often have different expectations of what ‘nights out’ are. So there is apparently a smaller pool of UK students to gel with.

This is second hand info. But my son says he is so glad he didn’t stay in London as his LSE friend (bright and confident) has had a disappointing year.

@EmptyItNow are you saying the international crowd are the non-party type?

I was a student at Goldsmiths, and LSE was, l guess, our competitor for research & methodology (all friendly, of course!). In academic circles, certain institutions are renowned for a particularfield/area/subject. Oxbridge doesn't trump any of them because they are oxbridge.
Hospitals work in a similar way l suppose. The Hammersmith is well respected for its IVF, and The Royal Free for immuniology. But one wouldn't hopefully compare them with Great Ormand St. Just because of its reputation. Perhaps that isn't a good comparison, but within each hospital, it isn't about heirarchy, but rather about seeing different centres as having the good fortune to have x or y working there or x and y department from which we will all ultimately benefit from.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/good-university-guide-in-full-tp6dzs7wn

So according to The Times Warwick is highest ranked for Economics.
Followed by
LSE
Cambridge
Oxford.

The COWI (Cambridge Oxford Warwick Imperial) grouping is highly rated for maths and quantitative economics courses.

That’s what I heard. I hate making assumptions and stereotyping and I feel uncomfortable saying it. But that’s also been my son’s experience to a lesser degree at another RG place.

I was never a party kid at university but I don’t want to go to the occasional night out for one drink in a bar or dancing. I think I would want to meet others who did.

Anyway it’s just an anecdote which others may disagree with!

But yes the better the university, the more overseas student will be attracted there.

I found the open day talk on their website.

They use the global rankings.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2023/economics-econometrics?&tab=indicators

LSE 54% of undergrads are international. 20.5% at Oxford. 2021 data. Probably Oxford will increase?

@poetryandwine Economics is not a stand alone undergrad course at Oxford. It is a component in 3 degrees, PPE, Economics snd Management and Economics and History. Therefore students almost certainly do a bit less maths on 2 of the courses. The E&M course is about the hardest to get into at Oxford. Of course it leads to a fantastic career if the student is motivated!

No-one these days would remotely compare LSE and Goldsmiths.

Assuming DS gets LSE (his end of year report was good and I'm confident he'll smash predictor exams) but doesn't get Oxbridge. Would it be a mistake for him to turn lse down because of the social aspect? Is it that bad? I'm sure he'll be happy wherever he goes.

@eggsbenedict23 i think the best bet at this stage is to pull together a strong application and then see what comes through. But have some safer options in there too - there are applicants with perfect GCSEs and four A stars predicted getting rejected across the board for the highest ranking unis. Definitely read this year’s applications threads and the ones on student room for individual unis to get a sense of the landscape. Good luck!

Many of my DS’s friends were rejected by all the top unis this year for economics including Cambridge,Oxford, LSE, UCL, Warwick with 3/4A* predicted, straight A’s at AS (highest possible grade) and between 7-9 grade 9s so as @lovefizzycolabottles says, count yourself lucky for getting even one of these offers. Out of 18 students with these profiles applying to economics at his school( it is a super selective), only 9 got at least one of the unis mentioned above. The rest will either be going to Bath/ Nottingham or take a gap year.
The personal statement really matters for many of these unis in terms of differentiating yourself, but due to the competition a lot of it is the luck of the draw.

Hi, again OP -

I am a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor. Our School has many international students, but under 50%. We work hard to integrate them, but it isn’t always easy. Some have weak English, as it is possible to pass the English admissions requirement by cramming and then rely on your mates. Some students, both home and overseas, are less than keen to mingle which is very sad.

So whilst I can def see the intellectual appeal of LSE, I understand PPs who say that students may struggle more to have a social life there. I don’t know how LSE is rated for pastoral care, student societies, etc. These things matter.

FYI, the word here last year was that amongst those predicted four A stars including FM, getting even one offer from amongst LSE, Cambridge, Warwick and UCL involved some good luck. Many in this position did not.

There is a contributor, possibly @needsmoresleep, with a DS who is, if memory serves, a fairly recent LSE graduate now doing a funded PhD in America. Apologies to @needsmoresleep if I have remembered the wrong name.

@TizerorFizz thank you for the clarification. This is what I thought, but I wasn’t sure as non-mathsy Econ is outside my area of interest. The Oxford approach is equally valid and as tizer says, some of it is even more competitive. But very different.

Agree with @lovefizzycolabottles - so many examples of Economics applicants being rejected this year, from the upper RG universities - many with 3/4 A* already achieved.

Definitely a need to consider some options not so popular with international applicants OP when your DS applies.

The Uniguide website provides good data relating to international vs UK applicant data per course per university