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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

please help... finals and my ds has fallen to pieces.

55 replies

Ingles2 · 07/05/2023 18:34

I'm really hoping there are some uni lecturers / people who can help as I didn't go to uni and have no clue of the best course of action...
Ds2 is 4th year of an integrated masters at Durham in Nat sciences maths and physics.. He has been struggling with his Mental health for the last year. he has dreadful OCD / anxiety and is having CBT and takes Prozac I think.. it was sertraline but he has changed it recently..
Anyway, It came to light after 3rd years exams that he wasn't able to focus / concentrate / revise and therefore didn't do well.. scrapped through I think. I thought things were improving this year, started therapy and drugs etc but it was difficult to tell as he's a 21 year old man and lives at the other end of the country. I went to visit him last weekend and was shocked at how ill, thin and unhappy he was . I tried to intervene but he refused any of my suggestions of help.
Now here we are, Sunday night, first exam is Tuesday morning and he's just rung. He cant do it, he's been trying to revise but nothing is going in. I don't know what to suggest. Please tell me what we should be doing . thanks

OP posts:
Juja · 07/05/2023 22:02

Ingles2 - all the best in the coming hours and days. So pleased your DS is accepting your support to come up with a plan.

Do come back for a handhold or to use this thread as a sounding board. Some really sound advice above from those working in Unis.

I don't know about Durham by St Andrew's are really strict on informing the Uni in advance so as long as you've got something into the system before Tuesday morning then you should be fine and more detailed evidence can follow.

Nobsandnockers · 07/05/2023 22:34

Just to say, I’ve come to the end of my long and successful career, so it’s not always a sign of things to come.
Good luck to your son.

MrsTerryPratchett · 07/05/2023 22:40

Ingles2 · 07/05/2023 21:47

thankyou everyone for your replies and sharing your stories... it definitely helps. I told my son about this thread and he's been reading too, so we have started to formulate a plan and he has sent an email to his college. Feeling slightly less panicked, so thankyou x

Since your son is going to read this...

I had to engage my personal tutor because of a lot of emotional issues and had to retake exams as a result. I've also got ADHD so revising is just awful.

I'm now decades since and very successful. This is the first time I've thought about it in absolutely years.

University seems so important and so pressured at the time. And it is. But there is so much afterwards as well. I found my niche and I love my job.

Listen to your mum, get some support, you'll be OK.

Highdaysandholidays1 · 07/05/2023 22:44

I also want to echo you will be ok. I'm a lecturer and it's fine to defer/have mitigation for exams if you feel terrible, in fact, it's essential. Use the processes set up to help you. Definitely send an email (student) saying you are happy for data to be disclosed and shared with your mum and that way she can advocate for you too. Do the same for the GP. Good luck, this is something that happens and can be sorted.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 07/05/2023 22:47

Nickersnackersnockers · 07/05/2023 19:20

My daughter is the same OP. She gave her permission for me to act on her behalf as she has well and truly stuck her head in the sand. She had urgent emails 10 days old.

She has deferred until September supposedly but I doubt she will be well enough.

Your son can defer. For years. There is no rush. Take him home and look after him. His happiness and wellbeing is far more important than a degree. Make sure he knows you are NOT disappointed in him.

Good luck

This, he can get a degree at any time or even if he doesn’t him and his health is much more important. Hope he is on the mend soon x

poetryandwine · 07/05/2023 23:05

Hi, OP -

I have sat on many Mitigating Circs Panels in my Russell Group STEM School. You have a lot of good advice here, particularly from @marthasmum and @Highdaysandholidays1.

I would add and emphasise the following.

Sadly this isn’t at all unusual. I too believe your family will find a way through. Nevertheless I know it is awful for both of you.

It may help and cannot hurt for DS to inform his personal tutor. (We used to seek the opinion of the PT who almost always supported the student; in recent years University Counsel have advised against this.) The uni cannot share with you until DS authorises this, but you can and should raise concerns with them ASAP. Comms will be one way until authorisation.

I must emphasise the point that has been made that each Mit Circs petition (I don’t know the Durham structure) must be accompanied by evidence for each claim. If in doubt, more rather than less. Eg, for counselling plus meds, submit evidence from both the counsellor and the prescriber. And this is the time for cards on the table: not ‘I confirms that John Smith has been seen at Greater London Counselling within the last year’, but ‘I have been meeting weekly with John Smith to provide CBT for clinical depression for the last six months’ or whatever. Your DS may need to specify this. Plus evidence around this acute episode.

Very best wishes to your DS. Remind him that many, including a number of his probable intellectual heroes, have been through similar (even if he is feeling a fraud or worthless) and come out the other side.

CrapBucket · 07/05/2023 23:13

OP and OP’s son, you have had loads of helpful advice better than I can give, but I just wanted to send love from an internet stranger. “It will all be ok in the end, and if it’s not ok, it’s not the end”.

There is so much more to life than exams, I promise.

ruthieness · 07/05/2023 23:23

A lot of Universities have a “fit to sit” policy - which means you cannot raise an issue after you have taken the exam or submitted the work!

IfOnlyYouWouldListen · 08/05/2023 02:04

Hi OP
I guided someone through this process at Durham for a very similar course last year so I hope my experience can help you.

Firstly much as it may not seem it, it's ideal for him to have reached out now as opposed to attempt an exam again as, as mentioned above, if you get a passing grade in an exam (even if that's 42% when you'd be expecting 60+ normally) then Durham tends to stick with that. With that in mind I would suggest the best course of action is not to sit any exams (though I think that may be his decision regardless).

The first thing he needs to do is to get in contact with his department. We often found that the head of department was more useful than the general admin team, but it's worth keeping both copied in. If he's still there I think the head of Nat Sci is James Blowey, he has always been helpful for those I know who have been in contact with him. Let them know he is unwell (or if they are aware of this, that he has worsened) and will not be able to sit his exams this session and let them know he will be speaking with his GP for evidence of this and he will subject a SAC (Serious Adverse Circumstances) form by the relevant deadline. If possible he should do this tomorrow, there will almost certainly be staff in as exams start tomorrow and hopefully this would avoid any panicked emails asking why he hasn't turned up on Tuesday.

Which college is he at? College welfare (the staff, not the fellow students!) are the experts in navigating this process so I would highly recommend you or him getting in contact with them (as said by others, they will not talk to you about him without his permission to do so, but they can likely give generic advice prior to that regardless). If he wants to go and talk to someone in person about it college are an excellent place to start also. College can also write a supporting statement for a SAC application if they have been kept in the loop so they are useful people to have around.

Depending on if he has had any contact with them throughout the year another good person to contact may be his academic advisor. For the person I was helping, they were a great advocate within the department for them, but they had spoken a fair bit within the year so I appreciate if they've had little contact your DS may not want to contact them.

The next stage will be gathering evidence for the SAC form. If he has a GP registered in Durham they have an easy standard process for this (although I believe it does cost money unfortunately). It can however take a few weeks so it should be kicked off this week. He'll need a GP appointment and to ask for a green form which they will ask him to fill out with some basic info about what's been happening and what he wants them to recommend for his assessments (they were very happy to recommend deferral to a later assessment period for less serious circumstances so I am confident they would do that for your DS). It is worth considering whether the resit period (August) would be enough time as if you successfully defer to then and are then not ready you may have to go through this process a second time then. If he is registered with a home GP then I would suggest you want a similar output from them - a letter stating problems experienced, how they affected the work& caused exams unable to be sat, what solutions were tried and a recommendation for what should happen to the assessments.

The SAC form itself will have a deadline, likely in early June but there will no doubt have been an email giving the specific date or the department should know. You write a statement yourself (or you can help him write it), there is a "guide to writing a SAC form" which is useful to refer to, you tick which assessments were affected and attach the evidence collected from the GP and college if applicable (and anyone else relevant). It is more important to submit the form on time (with evidence to follow if necessary) than have all the evidence as late submissions may not be accepted, but hopefully since you are starting now then that should be enough time (and there's no advantage to submitting it earlier other than it being off your plate).

The "result" of the SAC form won't be shared til the day everyone gets their results (so sometime in the penultimate week of June this year if I have my dates right). Different departments evaluate forms separately so it would be possible to have different decisions from physics and maths but I would imagine unlikely for a situation like this.

He can also put in a second SAC form (or include it in the first) regarding any project he might have submitted recently if he feels that has been affected also. It won't adjust the mark, but it means if at a point he does sit the exams and ends up on a borderline of of a grade they may award the higher grade.

I hope that is helpful, as said by many pp it will absolutely be okay in the end, but I can appreciate it being a bit of a shock right now.

poetryandwine · 08/05/2023 04:33

Great, generous post@IfOnlyYouWouldListen The power of Mumsnet!

sashh · 08/05/2023 06:28

The uni will have regulations about this. It's usually called, "exceptional circumstances", he will need to fill in a form, the student union might help with it.

Evidence from a Dr will help.

He needs to contact his personal tutor ASAP then start the application for ex circs.

Actually screw that - do what @IfOnlyYouWouldListen said.

vjg13 · 08/05/2023 07:00

@IfOnlyYouWouldListen Fantastic detailed helpful post.

Ingles2 · 08/05/2023 09:57

Good morning everyone.. and thankyou so much for all your posts.. especially @IfOnlyYouWouldListen . so I've read through them all and have written an email ... cant yet find who to send it too. James Blowey is still head of NatSci but there is no email listed and there are just so many people I'm just not sure. Tried to get hold of ds but no answer yet, I can see he's been online recently though, so I always take reassurance from that. Will keep trying and am planning to go up tomorrow whatever ds says. thanks again x

OP posts:
tinselvestsparklepants · 08/05/2023 10:10

Lecturer here. I'm not allowed to give parents information about their children unless the students has given consent. BUT if a parent reaches out to me I will always do what I can to find out what's going on and check that the student knows about Well-being/ exam options etc. I can raise a Serious Concern or whatever I think is appropriate. So do get in touch with your son's Programme Leader, just don't expect them to tell you much because they are in a position of trust with the students. Sometimes it can be very helpful if a student hasn't told us how they are.

tinselvestsparklepants · 08/05/2023 10:15

See if you can find any uni email and you may be able to guess what this man's is, they usually follow a simple formula. At mine it's firstname dot last name at university name.ac.uk Seconding the king and helpful post upthread about moving on this asap, resits should be an option and no one will favour your son sitting his exams now over his health.

cunningartificer · 08/05/2023 10:43

What college is he at? At Durham pastoral support is very good in my experience but mainly works through colleges. There should be a Dean who is focused on student welfare and there should be someone on duty even over a bank holiday. Despite data protection, get in touch with the college if you can as an emergency and alert them to the situation and say you're concerned about his wellbeing. They'll do a welfare check and that will start things going. I did this for a student there once. DH teaches at uni and has been grateful when parents have reached out to him as it has allowed him to start things moving from the Uni side and often students in mental health crisis aren't able to reach out themselves and are terrified of what will happen. So in a situation like this don't let data protection put you off--even if they can't tell you stuff what you tell them can be helpful.

tinselvestsparklepants · 08/05/2023 10:52

There's another name listed with James Blower's which is [email protected]

If in doubt try everyone you can find, they'll make sure it finds the right person.

MargaretThursday · 08/05/2023 12:44

@Ingles2

Really sorry to hear about your ds. It'll be his first in-person exams at Durham this year, won't it? That's probably not helping.

Maths, I think, were the only in-person last year, and I know from what dd said that a lot of them were struggling-her included. I had a 10pm call from her after her first exam in tears because she felt she'd done so badly. She seriously considered at that point pulling out and resitting the following year.
However overall the year group did badly on the exams so they moderate them and when moderated she actually did okay. I think that particular exam she was moderated up nearly 20 marks she suspected. So that's one thing for your ds to think about.
However I know one of her friends did much better on the in-person because she struggled to concentrate for much more than 3 hours, so whereas dd was using most of her 24 hours in the exams, her friend was handing them in after 4-5 hours. It's possible if he's struggling to concentrate that he may find the same-that the 3 hours is easier.

One of her friends decided the night before he started the exams that he wasn't ready and pulled out. He was going to do the resits, which I think are in August, but then decided to repeat the year.
The problem if you sit them and fail, is that even if you do brilliantly on the resit then your score is capped at 40%. That was why her friend decided he'd be better pulling out then trying.

If you can't get hold of the nat-sci person then will he give you his personal tutor's name so you can contact them? I think dd's friend it all went through his personal tutor.

Good luck and hope you get it sorted. It's hard when they're so far away.

poetryandwine · 08/05/2023 17:44

The Matthew Barber who comes up at Durham when googled is the Faculty Coordinator. It was a great idea by a PP by I am not sure someone in that role is the right person.

James Blowey hasn’t listed his email publicly for a reason. The phone number will get you through to a PA. That’s fine, it’s their job to help him prioritise and this is serious. I suggest ringing. Perhaps practise being clear and concise - this isn’t a personal criticism, OP! Also, cast a cold eye over the email, as you want it read for maximum impact, and edit accordingly - kudos if you have already done this in your very stressful situation. With minimal changes it can then be sent to the College, School(s) and/or PT. Again, very best wishes.

Xenia · 08/05/2023 17:53

Good luck. If it is a 4 year integrated masters does that mean after year 3 he already has an hours degree eg 2/1 BSc so he might simply stop this year and still have the same degree as anyone who did a 3 year degree?

Secondly will his finals not be marked anyway due to the strikes? If so and he did very well in the other years leaving now might be pointless if nothing he is about to do will be marked anyway. See if you can find out.

Thirdly he may not be able to revise now but he probably remembers a lot of what he did from years 1 - 4 anyway so perhaps he would do fine in the exams and they are worth a shot?

poetryandwine · 08/05/2023 18:38

The exams will be on Y4 content. The advice from people who know Durham specifically is what I would go by whilst waiting for guidance from the University.

@Xenia makes an excellent point that your DS is almost certainly eligible for the BSc based on his first three years of work. The assessment boycott is creating chaos at many unis. I don’t know whether Durham is one of them. It is possible that some provisional arrangements for degree classification will be made which could benefit your DS, which unis could not rescind as they will be the basis for employment and postgraduate admissions decisions.

But I would not be counting on this, OP. I think the boycott will be sorted in time for English unis to mark exams. I would be working closely with Durham on this.

Ingles2 · 08/05/2023 19:40

Thanks again for all your messages.. James Blower is ds' HOD so he had his email and we've heard back from him already. He won't be sitting his exams now but submitting the SAC form as you have all suggested.
He has a therapy session tomorrow so we can get the ball rolling on statements, then I can get him home and start to try and deal with his health issues.
It's been such a difficult time and I feel so incredibly sad for Ds. He set off to Durham in Sept 2019, with great A levels, loads of ambition, and lots of friends.. then covid hit, years of interrupted uni and now he's a practically a skeleton he's so thin and has huge issues around hygiene and hand washing that have totally disrupted his day to day life. A miserable experience for him 😔

OP posts:
Mirabai · 08/05/2023 20:03

Very best wishes to your son - don’t despair - with the right treatment he could make a full recovery xx

bumblingbovine49 · 08/05/2023 20:08

Xenia · 08/05/2023 17:53

Good luck. If it is a 4 year integrated masters does that mean after year 3 he already has an hours degree eg 2/1 BSc so he might simply stop this year and still have the same degree as anyone who did a 3 year degree?

Secondly will his finals not be marked anyway due to the strikes? If so and he did very well in the other years leaving now might be pointless if nothing he is about to do will be marked anyway. See if you can find out.

Thirdly he may not be able to revise now but he probably remembers a lot of what he did from years 1 - 4 anyway so perhaps he would do fine in the exams and they are worth a shot?

There has be n very good advice on this thread but I absolutely do not.advise that people rely on work not being marked.

Despite a ' marking boycott ', the reality is that the vast majority of lecturers will mark and moderate work but will just not upload the marks for their marking deadlines if an agreement is not reached by then.

Once an agreement has been reached staff will be expected to submit the marks almost immediately, especially if this is after the originally marking deadlines and no lecturer is going to wait until then to mark the work as there won't be enough time to get that done.

poetryandwine · 08/05/2023 20:36

Again, I am so sorry for your DS. I know he is in a bad way but I want him to know that many students and notable scientists have come out the other side of what you are describing. I am so glad you are prioritising his health. I would suggest that in thinking about his future, he give himself every chance for for a strong recovery before resuming studies and/or sitting exams.

Repeating Y4 may well be his best option, both academically and psychologically, and there is absolutely no stigma attached to doing so. The biggest mistake students make after a breakdown is rushing their recovery. It seldom works, and often triggers a relapse. This is worth doing right.