Art and Design at university; for past, present, and future students and parents

[PhotoDad]

I've been on a wonderful thread about applications for art/design applications for the coming academic year, and I thought it might be useful to have a more general place for people at different stages of the process to share advice and hints. The normal MN advice about universities is often not applicable to these subjects!

I'll keep this short because I personally don't like huge posts that appear at the top of each page, but I'll add some starting thoughts below. I know that there's a huge range of experience here and a lot of support, so please do ask questions, or share triumphs and disasters.

The original thread is here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4626697-2023-uni-applications-for-those-pursuing-art-and-creative-routes

Some links to degree shows here. (Including my course 😁 but won't say which one)https://www.creativereview.co.uk/2023-art-design-degree-show-guide/

@PhotoDad yes, agree. I get my students to do it on my course...but they don't on our fine art course. There's some good work in my Uni's fine art course but it's not like the experience I had in Scottish Art school. Our facilities don't compare for a start. Do check.. completely agree 🙂

Query aimed at those parents who had kids doing Art Foundation courses or considered it.
My dd wants to do a creative degree. Currently doing A-levels, two of which are creative. She wanted to do a degree in animation, then thought perhaps film and is now not sure and thinking maybe Art!!! Is it worth her doing the Foundation year course to help her decide her next move? Why did your child opt for foundation or not opt for it? Thanks.

My DS1 has just finished a Foundation at Leicester De Montfort
He decided to do a FAD as he wasn't sure about an Art degree, or which art degree, or where to do an art degree! He also had confidence issues in his own ability to undertake an art degree! He was always a perfectionist and overly hard on himself...
The year has been amazing. He is now going back into his school to tell everyone to do a Foundation!
His confidence has really grown, he has decided on a Fine Art degree. He had the option to try everything (the FAD show had everything: painting, sculpture, animation, video, photography, textiles, print, his work was a combination of photography and film in a pseudo scientific installation- this from the boy whose A level work was beautifully detailed yet painstaking relief prints).
He feels able to now tackle a fine art degree as he has been equipped with processes and skills not taught at A level. The course at DMU was fabulous. Amazing facilities, lots of emphasis on drawing, and then developing from that in a whole host of ways. Pathways were only decided at Christmas so whether you were textiles or graphic design they all did the same stuff for 15 weeks then were free to pick a pathway (fine art, pvc (photography visual communication), 3D ot textiles). However most pathways crossed and no workshops were out of bounds.
It's free usually (esp at FE colleges) but beware some unis are making it part of a 4 year course and charging fees.
My DS had an automatic right to stay on for degree but chose to apply through UCAS and got 4 unconditional offers.
It wasn't an easy 9 months. Very full on and hard work but he is a completely changed artist.

On the other side of the coin, DD went straight to an illustration degree without Foundation as she was certain that was what she wanted to do, and also because she wanted to take a four-year sandwich course anyway. There is no right answer here, it depends on the DC. If @Okisenough DD isn't sure, then Foundation sounds perfect.

Look back at the first page of the thread for my summary of different things all generally called "foundations" if you're unsure!

My DD has just completed art foundation at our local university (smallish provincial city). Her experience has been rather similar to @Lottsbiffandsmudge 's DC except that she was very textiles focused at A level. It's been a wonderful opportunity to explore many different techniques and she has learned so many skills. Her co students are going on to do a range of different art and design degrees and mixing with them also gave her a broader outlook. She's going to do a fashion based degree in the autumn - so back to textiles so perhaps the new skills aren't necessary- but I still think the year has been good for her but not just for the art. She had a very difficult sixth form experience and her confidence plummeted. This year she has been at university whilst having the comfort and emotional support of living at home and she has really matured and grown in confidence. She's ready to start a degree in a different city now and is excited to be going, a very different outlook from this time last year. I still can't believe that we didn't need to pay fees!

@Okisenough your child sounds like the ideal candidate for a Foundation course. One hears of kids who thought they were pretty set in one discipline but then fell in love with another during their Foundation course. Some A level students haven't had the opportunity to explore other avenues as their school may not have the needed facilities.
My daughter is fairly certain she wants to do Animation. She's done a short course at CSM and her own work as it was not something explored in her art A level. But she also wants to try other things before committing 100%, so she is doing an FAD.
Another reason for doing a Foundation year is it's a kind of bridge between school and Uni. It allows a year of maturing before leaving home (though some students do go away for Foundation year too, I think the majority do it close to their home if possible). My daughter just isn't ready to leave the nest yet!
Finally it gives a few more months for students to improve their portfolios, and get more work done that is related to their eventual degree.

My DS did live away but only just over an hour. He's used the year to mature and gain confidence in being independent too. He's moving much further away next year. He also had a tough 6th form MH wise and it's been a great stepping stone year.
He's done all sorts this year and his art has gone in lots of new directions.
Its not an easy option esp if applying to ucas because that comes round v quickly but all the art in his portfolio this time round came from his Foundation.
Even if you are sure of your discipline its not a bad option esp if you can live at home. It's always good to explore new processes abd ways if thinking.
There were also a good number of mature students on the course who my DS found very interesting. They had v different perspectives often and where a great support to him. He was also their go to guy for IT help!

Thanks for all the feedback, it does sound like something worth doing, and I think she would benefit from exploring other creative disciplines and another year to mature before she heads out into the World. She will make the final decision but I feel like it would be a positive choice.

@Okisenough I would definitely echo those saying how useful a FAD is. My DD attended at our local Uni and was able to stay at home as we're very close. She was dead set of a textiles degree at NTU which she had deferred to do the FAD but in trying different pathways for the first term then slowly focussing in on a specialism she has ended up doing 3D Design and has changed her degree. As previous have said - it is a huge amount of hard work but I've seen her really take on the challenges and her confidence has grown. If the course is still free of charge when your DD goes then I'd definitely say go for it. Not all FADs are the same though so worth researching ahead of time.

I'm slowly working my way through the other older thread, and reading about your DC's experiences really resonates with me and what has been going on with my own DC. It is great to read about how much better they have been since leaving school whether with foundations or degrees, it gives me a lot of hope.

Also does anyone have any opinions on or experience of the Foundation diploma at The Art Academy in London? It looks interesting although it doesn't attract FE funding so you have to pay fees which are approx £5k. I've booked dc onto an open day for Autumn.

@Okisenough It does look an interesting course, even if it's its own thing rather than being accredited. However, it claims to be just Fine Art (which is fine, but one of the strengths of a FAD is trying different disciplines) and obviously isn't eligible for any student loans for tuition or maintenance. Hmm.

DD didn't really enjoy her Sixth Form much and, you're right, art school has been amazing for her (even with a few setbacks). She's just got her first-year marks back; as is common in many universities, the grades don't count towards the the final result, only a "pass" is required to progress to second-year. Even so, her modules were all either Upper Second or First class, so we're all very pleased!

@Okisenough I agree with @PhotoDad that one of the strengths of art foundation is the variety of things that they're taught. DD did not enjoy all of the areas and there will be some that she will probably never use again, but I do think that the course has made her more confident about trying new things. Her degree course will also hopefully push her beyond her comfort zone and knowing she managed this on art foundation should be useful.
Both this and the previous thread have been really helpful to me this year but I've found it sad how many of us have DCs who have struggled at school as their talents in the arts are not valued by the government who set the priorities of the education system. If you're not seen it before this TED talk about creativity by the late and great Ken Robinson is worth a watch. https://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robinson_do_schools_kill_creativity/c

Ive looked in to the Foundadtion courses in Scotland. The set up seems a bit different from England. So they tend to be attached to a degree, in other words they count as the first year and are funded just like uni education. I’m not sure what happens with the funding if a Scottish applicant wants to go to England though…

@Okisenough as @PhotoDad points out it's not an accredited course - UAL and Pearson are the two accredited courses I've heard of.
I'd be wary about that.
So now at risk of telling you something you already know, here's a brief rundown of London options if that's where you are.
You can go big - UAL Camberwell and UAL CSM, both have about 350 students on their FAD courses, half of which are fee paying international students. CSM is the one for those thinking of fashion, Camberwell for graphic design, textiles, and film, though there are some crossovers. Both very competitive with CSM even more so. One benefit is if students pass the Foundation they are automatically given a place on a degree program, though they do not guarantee it's on the one you want! UAL has a stellar international reputation, however I've heard negatives (overcrowded, less than engaged teaching).
Kingston University has about 170 on their Foundation year, excellent reputation, also very competitive (about 10% acceptance rate), also admit half from abroad. Ravensbourne is more digital based, but I was impressed by their fashion!
City and Guilds also charges a fee, though is UAL accredited, and my impression is it is more traditional fine art judging by what they offer at degree level. I do know someone who did it during Covid, enjoyed it, and is now doing fashion degree at CSM.
My daughter would have gone to KU if she had received an offer, sadly did not. She did get an offer from UAL Camberwell, but we weren't that impressed by the facilities or year end show. Plus the class is huge.
She is going to Morley College Chelsea, Centre for Creative Industries (FE college with a few degree options, particularly good for millinery and textiles). The year only has up to 35 students, the facilities looked good. Morley took over Kensington and Chelsea College in 2020 and Foundation is at their old art building. KCC had a good reputation for its Foundation course.
I think there are a few other FAD courses, but these are the ones we found (though we are SW London based so didn't look at North London).

@FriendlyLaundryMonster my experience in Scotland is a DC who did an HNC at a college. It could have led to 2nd year but their preference was 1st year entry. They applied both to English and Scottish Art Schools. Funding would have covered either - funding for Scottish students can be for up to 5 years - so HNC plus a degree for up to 4 years in length works.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts about The Art Academy. The only reason we are considering it is because DC attended summer courses over the years and they've always been good with a lovely atmosphere plus they are moving to swanky new premises near tate modern! @mondaytosunday yes London based so will be looking at everything you mentioned plus possibly working men's college. Sadly our local FE college doesn't do one so everything we are looking at will involve a commute. I'm actually surprised that more places don't offer it. We will probably apply simultaneously for foundations and degrees then defer as we figure it is probably easier to change courses once accepted, plus have the support of the school system in dealing with UCAS. I think at the moment we are viewing foundation as a mixture of gap year and breathing space to mature a bit and decompress/shake off school life before they take the next step.

I think at the moment we are viewing foundation as a mixture of gap year and breathing space to mature a bit and decompress/shake off school life before they take the next step.
That's what I hoped it would be for DD and it was that but also so much more 🙂

@Philandbill That's so good to hear

We went to visit Kingston and I can see why it is so popular and competitive to get into. The course leader seems to be a genuinely enthusiastic and open-minded teacher; the course seems well-structured and the facilities are excellent. DC was impressed with the place. I spoke with teachers at school who are pushing Kingston or UAL (csm/camberwell) and didn't offer anywhere else despite me pushing!!! They were of the opinion that although UAL can be chaotic and has large numbers of students, it's still one of the best.....hmmmm

@Okisenough there's no denying UAL's reputation (though more attached to its degree programs).
We were blown away by the facilities at Kingston, and the fact that Foundation students were welcome to use them - not the case at UAL.
There are other FADs, you just have to do the research. My daughter's teacher was useless, still listed Goldsmith as doing a Foundation, and didn't look at her application portfolio til a couple days before the deadline! They do so much for kids applying through UCAS and nothing for the art students. Hopefully your child's teachers are more involved!
We just found out that my daughter, who has never won a school prize before, is getting Best EPQ and Most Improved for History. Means I'll have to put on something decent and get myself to Cadogan Hall in Chelsea in a couple weeks! So glad she's getting some recognition for her hard work.

@PhotoDad
Not sure how relevant this is for this thread, but I've ended up with a successful career post art school. Granted it has a very tenuous link to my education but I completely believe it was art school that helped me climb my way up, constantly having to back myself, having the confidence to pitch, public speak etc
I realised in my 20's that I didn't want to struggle financially all my life so pushed myself into a completely different path and my art education helped me do that. I knew I had to 'stand out' and be 'exceptional' to get anywhere. So there is life after design, might not be what you thought you'd want at 20, but it pays the bills!

Thanks, @Hop27, it's always encouraging to hear stories like that even outside the art/design world!

My daughter and I had a long talk last night about whether there will be a job after she graduates. Animation is obviously intended to lead into just that - and she thinks an Art degree is not the same as, say, getting a History or English degree where you then go do a graduate training program (I mean having a good degree as a goal, rather than working in the field you got your degree in). Now with AI it seems even more of an unknown.
While no one can predict how the creative industries will look in three or five years (if doing an FAD plus a placement year), this is the one thing that makes her doubt her choice. It doesn't help that I started doing science at uni, switched to graphic design and then told her my degree did not prepare me at all for actual work (as a designer in a publishing house), and my sister did a writing degree but then became a doctor...
She is prepared that her vision of a future job may not be the reality - there just aren't enough jobs even today for all those graduating every year. But she dies t want to end up in a totally unrelated field.
As we are starting the round of open days she's determined to nail the teachers down: as they should know the industry, is there an actual job in the end? What jobs do their graduates actually end up doing?
Those stats on whatuni or equivalent aren't detailed enough.
@Hop27 my point is she wants to live to work, not the other way round. She wants to do something she is passionate about, not a 'it's ok but I don't love it' job that puts food on the table. Of course, wouldn't we all, but I do feel for her and all creatives who find the world is changing fast and does not always value their work.

We had the same sort of discussions with DS. The reality of a job in creative industries is low. But I do not necessarily agree that an Art degree is worth 'less' than a history degree for instance. Not many who do history, English etc deg end up in jobs were they use their degree subject!
But that happens in all subjects. I did a science degree and never used it. My graduate job was totally unrelated and could just have easily been done by a art graduate.
I do think there is a need to build up.a CV though of work experience in and out of the subject. DS is working all summer with kids at holiday courses (great if he decides to teach) has taken on some free local design type commissions (nothing big and for friends but shows working to a brief etc)
He also has 2 science A levels as well as art which would help in terms of some grad jobs requiring numeracy etc.
It's a tough job market for all. And the debt levels any degree leaves them with are scary. But similarly education for education's sake is also valuable imo.
On talking to many people in the art world it seems many do multiple jobs. So a main job and their own art on the side or several pt jobs. It is a precarious industry in that respect but many careers that exist now will be badly affected by AI not just creative... (accountancy, engineering, etc etc)
In the end DS could not stomach 3 more years of Bio or Chem and only loved art enough to carry on...