Art and Design at university; for past, present, and future students and parents

[PhotoDad]

I've been on a wonderful thread about applications for art/design applications for the coming academic year, and I thought it might be useful to have a more general place for people at different stages of the process to share advice and hints. The normal MN advice about universities is often not applicable to these subjects!

I'll keep this short because I personally don't like huge posts that appear at the top of each page, but I'll add some starting thoughts below. I know that there's a huge range of experience here and a lot of support, so please do ask questions, or share triumphs and disasters.

The original thread is here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4626697-2023-uni-applications-for-those-pursuing-art-and-creative-routes

That's great, @Cooknook, I'm so pleased you made a go of it! I agree about that "safety net" effect of having some family cash available. How many folk can say I've genuinely loved it all about their careers? (Not me...)

DD has, this week, completed her first ever paid commission (which was a 'friend of a friend of a friend' on social media thing) and is buzzing to the extent that she's compiled a CV, put together a portfolio site, and applied for various "freelancer needed" job ads. I have no idea whether she'll get any of those jobs, but it's the sort of attitude that's got to help, right?

My DD was very much into wildlife photography at school (that's why I have this username) and is keeping her hand in as a hobby, but jobs in that particular area are like hen's teeth. (But she included some photos in her portfolio, and the tutor liked that; composition is composition, whatever the medium.)

My DS doesn't actually want to be 'an artist'! But the skills he is learning on the fine art lathway are so transferable. For instance he has learnt to use so much software this year as well as collaboration, self direction, creative thinking, team work etc.
He wanted to do a degree in his favourite subject. Not dissimilar to someone studying English lit or history. How many make a career directly related to those subjects?.
At UWE today it was interesting that they are reorganising the structure of the departments so the School of Art now sits in a wider 'college' within the uni that includes architecture, arts, creative IT and engineering. The head of arts and head of engineering are v keen to forge links as the engineering head said she can turn out technically good engineers but without the creative flair, collaborative skills and ability to push themselves out of the norm they will find their jobs replaced by IT.
I think the skills learnt on a good arts degree can set people up for many excellent careers within the arts or outside.

The industry changes so much in a few short years. I did graphic design (they called it communication design) at Parsons back in the 80s (😳) and did one whole semester drawing letters in Typography. Well what happens a couple years into my junior art editor job at a magazine publishing firm? Desk top publishing. I became more of a production editor then. Huge learning curve as we went from manual typewriters and faxes/couriers laden with pasted down copy and physical art work to computers and Quark virtually overnight.
As my daughter wants to do animation, she has looked at possible job roles and even thinks she may need to move to France (thank goodness her grandmother was Irish) where there's more of a 2D industry. She's looked at the prestigious (and presumably difficult to get into ) Gobelins for a masters (taught in English). But with AI who knows? FAD next year, three or four (she'd like to do a year abroad or in industry) for a degree. Maybe a masters. Five/six years from now it may be a whole new landscape out there.

Yes indeed; artists always learn to use the tools available to them (like music changing as instrument technology advances, or the advent of photography!) As PP have said, art school seems to teach not only the (transferable) skills but a mindset, a way of thinking about problems, which can be applied to different things. (Let's hope so, anyway!)

Maybe I'm too pessimistic/defensive about job possibilities (depending on the field). But whatever happens, DD is having an amazing time, working harder than she ever has before, and meeting interesting people.

@Lottsbiffandsmudge
DH is a civil and structural engineer. Uwe have spotted something about engineering grads. They can no longer draw or understand 3d. They do the maths but they don’t understand the actual mechanics of 3d structures. DH (years ago!) did art and technical drawing O level. His school had an architecture course as a “club”. They could draw and relate it to buildings. Of course computers replace all of this but they don’t replace how someone thinks.

@PhotoDad
The big issue for applicants is knowing which universities are a complete shambles. I will name and shame Brighton. They also told DD she would have known the answer to a question she asked at interview if she had attended their open day! Like lots of DC, she was not allowed more than 3 days off for open days. I complained because what about DC on very limited budgets? Open days can be expensive! Such a poor attitude there. Then no decision. I’ve no idea where else is poor but there needs to be some sort of black list! Just for sanity!

Only just seen this new thread - thanks @PhotoDad I'm another one from a STEM background whose dd has gone to the dark side....😉

DH is a civil and structural engineer. Uwe have spotted something about engineering grads. They can no longer draw or understand 3d

Twenty years ago I created a first year module designed to address that specific problem. It was optional and I expected about 40 students to sign up. Over the years I ran it, registration hovered around 120-150.

A friend's DC is studying lighting design, and was somewhat taken aback to have to take a 3D drawing class! Although you can use software, sometimes you just want to make a quick plausible sketch to show someone in a lot of technical fields.

DD's whole art-school is fanatical about observational drawing, as are a handful of others. That approach is a bit "marmite" in the art-education world, I gather.

As for naming and shaming... I think it's better for families who were directly affected to do that, although I've read horror stories on other threads. All of DD's applications were handled quickly and efficiently, although she turned down the uni that, umm, offered a place without even looking at her portfolio! (Derby, for the record.)

Thanks for this, very helpful. Dc is considering a foundation diploma, and is signing up for summer open days.

DMU are also all about drawing everything from life. No photos allowed!
In terms of tardiness. MMU was awful at foundation and Brighton poor for degree. So slow and behind everyone else.

I just checked the UAL website and it says they will endeavour to get offers/rejections out by May 31!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting @PhotoDad you say that as all the places my daughter applied to wanted observational drawings, for Kingston it was 10. I know they emphasise drawing on the course maybe that's why they wanted so many. They were also careful to say that lots of different media can be used for 'drawing'...
So she's now thinking (though will revisit it after A levels, and can I just say we did not need the District line to have a meltdown this morning when her exam started at 9am and I had an appointment at that time nearer home) for animation (particularly 2D or paper animation as she has started calling it, not interested in Gaming):
Falmouth
AUB
Uni of Hertfordshire
UCA Farnham
UWE.
Those are the ones she intends to visit pre application anyway. Be interesting for those parents of children who will start at any of them in September to keep updating on this thread how they are getting on! Wasn't someone going to do a round up of where the kids were going?

I think that might have been on the "other" thread, @mondaytosunday, to make this one more inclusive of people just starting the process or with past experience! One of DD's best friends is doing "Animation and Illustration" and thoroughly enjoying it at CSA/ARU, for what it's worth.

@PhotoDad perhaps - it's a bit confusing as people are still posting on the old thread too. Will have her look at ARU!

Thanks @PhotoDad for this thread. Dd is only in her first year of GCSEs, but very keen to study art. I'd love to know if anyone has come across any examples of portfolios online, for uni entry. It would be really useful to see the standard and variety expected.

@FriendlyLaundryMonster Most of the online stuff seems to be American (the process there seems to values finished pieces more). My DD's portfolio of 15 pages for illustration (some with multiple images on) broke down as:

4 pages from her A-level Art sketchbooks of her current project
1 page of life drawing of a model
4 pages of "other media" to show range (2 of photography, 2 of dolls/models)
2 pages of a piece she'd been commissioned to do (final, and process/drafts)
4 pages of her own illustrations (2 final pieces, 2 notes/sketches)

I could probably find a way to share some of these images with you if you're interested!

When she met her course leader for the first time (he kindly showed her round after the offer as we couldn't make the Open Day), he asked her, "Why did you include so much A-level stuff?" so maybe you could dial back the first element. (The answer was, "My art teacher wanted me to include even more!")

@PhotoDad Thank you, I will Pm you.

@FriendlyLaundryMonster portfolios will vary massively with type of degree and institution.
So for instance for Foundation my DS had all A level work as he didn't really do a lot outside of that. For Foundation the bar is lower so if your DC doesn't have much 'outside' work I wouldn't worry too much. Drawing is a key thing in most though so if it's not part of A level work it needs to be added. (Doesn't have to be pencil!).
My DS didn't label his work as A level or otherwise.
For degree he struggled to thin his portfolio down as he had so much work from his Foundation. But he included a lot of development work, rough work and a huge variety of media.
I can also send you links to his portfolios (Foundation and a degree one) of you would like.
My DS is doing Fine Art.

I caveat my above post to day that DS did not apply to any London art schools for Foundation. The bar is higher for those!

@Lottsbiffandsmudge I'd really appreciate that, I'll PM you my email address. I also didn't realise the bar was higher for London schools. Is Oxbridge still a desirable thing in the art world, or just the academic one? dd is mainly drawing at the moment, but just starting to experiment with oils. She has the confidence of a young teenager. I took her to a gallery full of old masters recently and she thought she'd be able to manage something similar in about 3 years!

My DD didn't apply for any London schools; they are all pretty big and she wanted a small, friendly, atmosphere (there are around 20-30 students for each design speciality where she is). Plus she doesn't like big cities! But, horses for courses... many DC would love huge cohorts and bright lights. The standards in London are higher simply because they get more applicants per place, mainly based on the reputation. Cambridge is the right sort of size for her (completely walkable), plus there are lots of free museums/parks/etc for her to go and draw with her friends, all a short walk away from her campus and accommodation.

But that's Cambridge as in Anglia Ruskin (Cambridge School of Art). Cambridge University doesn't even offer art, only academic art history. Oxford has the Ruskin School of Art which is part of the historic university; that has a great reputation, but it only offers Fine Art (not design) and is known for including lots of academic study too.

Cambridge Uni is launching a brand new "design" course which overlaps art, design, science, engineering, and goodness knows what else. Too early to tell what that will be like.

@FriendlyLaundryMonster the first thing to get your head round for art based degrees is that traditional universities don't tend to offer them! A handful do but not many.
The newer unis (ex polys) and specific art schools are where its at! A lot of old polys (eg Man Met) were originally art schools! My mum's grandad went to the Manchester School of Art which is still part of Man Met...
If you are from a traditional uni type background (as I was - Chemistry from Sheffield Uni) it's hard to let go of that desire for an 'old uni'. But they are generally not right for art based degrees (with some exceptions).
Depending on what your DD ends up wanting to do (prob fine art if she wants to emulate old masters!!) will dictate the best places to look.
Also if she doesn't know which area of art is for her when doing A level a foundation year is a good option. Some are stand alone but offer direct entry to the institution's degree, some are integral to a 4 year course and many are run by FE colleges often allowing local study. Its classed as FE so free for school leavers. Most follow the UAL curriculum. Again for those of a traditional background there can sometimes be a 'stigma' to a foundation year as for non arts subjects they are often for those not having good enough grades. That is NOT the case in art and some degrees even require a foundation.
My DS has 2 A stars and an A at A level but has still done a foundation (at Leicester De Montfort) and it has been the best decision for him bridging the gap between structured A level and a very free Fine Arts degree (he's going to UWE).
I think Fine Arts esp can benefit from the foundation as Fine Art degrees tend to be very student led with little direction from tutors.

@Lottsbiffandsmudge Thank you so much for all this advice. And thanks to @PhotoDad too for sharing his dd’s wonderful portfolio.

You're welcome, @FriendlyLaundryMonster. Like @Lottsbiffandsmudge,my own background is also academic from "old" universities so all of this was new to me (hence my eagerness to share what it took me a while to find out). If there's any snobbery (eg on some MN threads), I tend to point out that places like Manchester and Cambridge Schools of Art (now MMU and ARU) were founded well before most Russell Group unis. 😀CSA is in a gorgeous maze-like Victorian/Edwardian building literally surrounded by the glass-and-steel of the rest of ARU.

The exception seems to be Scotland, where the art schools are associated with traditional universities.

I also completely agree about Fine Art from what I've heard from DD and read from others. It's less structured by the very nature of things and so a Foundation is a great way of starting out.

@FriendlyLaundryMonster a FAD is also good to not only beef up a portfolio but as a bridge year - my daughter wants a break from the pressure of A levels- not to say a Foundation year isn't full on!
As far as portfolios, a Foundation one would be broader and experimental in different media, a degree one more focused on that specific area.
Going to end of year Foundation shows (also often posted online) is good indication of the quality of work needed for degree, and the degree shows will give you an idea of what the universities are producing.
And the US portfolios showcased online are also not without value, though I agree they tend to value finished work rather than process. There are plenty of 'see my A* portfolio' YouTube videos too.
And look at the course, not necessarily the university name. What might be a brilliant course for Fine Art may not be good for another discipline.

Thank you all. We are in Scotland, just to throw a spanner in the works! I'm going to look at the Edinburgh College of Art and Glasgow School of Art, although when I looked briefly before it seemed that the Glasgow School of Art didn't do Fine Art???