Uni of Edinburgh not marking dissertations/final pieces of work - anyone else's DC affected?

[Iliketulips]

DD heard this afternoon that her dissertation and final pieces of work are not to be marked by Uni of Edinburgh. She is absolutely devastated right now as she wanted her true degree result and feedback on hours of work. She feels her most recent work is the best, so will never know if she could have got her grade up. Moving forward she was seriously considering studying a masters abroad abroad and also working abroad, but now uncertain if that's possible as she thinks they'll wanted an athenticated degree.

£38k is bad?

I bet. Ds is remarkably sanguine, I feel it though. For all Dc and up to university age (probably a bit older than that too)

Starting salaries aren't so far away from what they were a decade ago. 38k isn't poverty, but would you work for what you got paid a decade ago, with a heavier workload? If the answer is 'yes, sure', then someone, somewhere, is laughing at you. It's probably your boss.

What most people do if they don't like their pay is to search for alternative employment. (It's how life is in the private sector)

I think those striking are having hissy fits.

It is the private sector, isn't it? There aren't big public grants to universities any more. They charge fees. They provide a service, and they are subject to CMA regulation. Some of them, I would guess, will end up in court just like any other business would, for breach of contract. That the sector happens to be badly managed and heavily regulated is important, of course it is - but don't kid yourself that this is the public sector.

Edinburgh brings in an unbelievably massive fortune from teaching. But they'd rather spend it on shiny trinkets than teaching staff.

@eggsbenedict23 do you also think that about the teachers and doctors striking?

I'd say less so. Since the university staff are paid a liveable wage.

I believe school teacher strikes are just one off days and are not continual refusals to do work. With the NHS staff striking from what I remember essential services are still carried out.

"a doctor starting your specialist training in 2022 your basic salary will be £40,257 to £53,398"

Sounds plentiful.

No it doesn't. Not enough to buy even the worst flat in Edinburgh. Why do people with rubbish wages respond to that by making other people feel they ought to expect the same?

People are of course entitled to take industrial action
What I object to is focusing on the final year students,and then wittering on about’ protecting students in general’
They have chosen to act in a way that is hugely detrimental to a large number of final year students
At least have the guts to own that decision

In what way are the striking lecturers failing to own their actions? Many of them are being docked 100% pay for, at most during exam season, 35-40% effort. Fair enough to abhor the MAB bit I cannot see that strikers are failing to own their actions. It is in fact for the greater good of students in the large. The current system is not sustainable. For a particular cohort, it absolutely sucks

If UCU were a more popular union with more members this strike and previous strikes might have a greater impact and do a better job of forcing management to the table.

Those who are being taken worst advantage of in my area are two main cohorts: the UK’s best and brightest younger scientists and the ‘quietly excellent’ seniors who do the work that has this country consistently punching above its weight scientifically even as we collapse in so many ways.

People persevere because research in their DNA. Sure, @eggsbenedict23 , these are the very people who could find other employment. But they will quickly be replaced by less able scientists and the international reputation of the UK will suffer. Also , the demands on these less able people will be the same, except that they will have a harder time with research, and the cycle will continue. How will this help?

They have chosen a course of action that is detrimental to final year students which I think is disgusting

It is desperation, @Motheranddaughter . I agree it is hell for the final year cohort. I believe employers and PG programmes will accommodate. Perfectly? Surely not. But it is hard to weigh the impact on a particular DC against the nervous breakdowns and divorces clearly caused by years of relatively poorly paid, highly pressurised and increasingly insecure 60+ hr working weeks.

You may certainly call it disgusting. I am only saying that from my vantage point the strikers are in fact owning their actions. They are not enjoying this and they are not cowardly

They are quite the reverse. It is very, very difficult to stick to a principled stance when you are coming under completely unreasonable (some would say illegal) pressure and bullying from management. This descends from all angles: to declare forthcoming action (strike breaking, which you don't have to do), undermining the action you're paying dearly for taking (100% reduction for 1.9% of your total work plan) by informing them and allowing them to create contingencies, and the horrible, divisive atmosphere caused by management from their bullying other colleagues to undermine the action by marking their work.

I've never known this sector so toxic.

The MAB is not singling out any specific cohort. They are not only refusing to make finalists' work: it applies across the board. That it affects one cohort adversely is singularly unfortunate given earlier circumstances but it is, given the present state of things, inevitable.

I did not take the ultimate decision to call a MAB. My union did that. But yes, I did vote yes in the ballot, I did vote for the continuation of action when this was put to the members, and I did take the individual decision to participate in the action. I don't want it. I've lost thousands out of my pay in what's increasingly looking like sunk costs fallacy and am currently working in an appalling climate. UKHE is in free fall and simply cannot continue like this.

Mumsnet's members can 'condemn' it all they want, especially as they are doing so from a position that clearly lacks understanding. I completely own it. I'll continue in the action for as long as we have a mandate. People are exhausted and on the point of despair - we are not doing this for some sort of jolly.

This thread has rather veered away from the very immediate issue of students who now aren’t able to graduate into a wider debate. And that’s the problem - the union is trying to tackle a really deep seated problem by targeting a group of students who can’t have any impact on the problem they want to address.

I understand the union grievances - but how is hurting students and also putting future people off going to university going to help? Especially when the anecdotal information I’m getting is that this is hitting arts and humanities students most - which are the very courses with declining numbers that universities might want to close.

@SerafinasGoose is right, @Gettingthroughtheweek . Final year students are the most affected, but they have not been targeted. The main reason I think this may be hitting Humanities students harder is that Humanities staff have poorer working conditions (more temporary contracts, etc) and are therefore more heavily unionised. But ostensibly less vocational subjects, including Pure Maths at a couple of universities, were under fire well before this.

Courses have already been closing.

If “owning it” means constantly whinging that the big bad management are docking pay because you’re breaching your contract then sure, you’re owning it. UCU pushed the button on MAB, regardless of their rhetoric they give no hoots about the impact on students and now they want to act like victims.

You are clearly arguing a point on which you have minimal understanding. I am not 'breaching my contract'. I'm participating in legal, mandated industrial action, as all members have a right to do.

Far from breaching contractual obligations I'm exceeding these every sense of the word, particularly respecting 3-4* research and spending the necessary time on assessment feedback rather than the paltry, insulting 10 minutes allotted by my institution. Why? To benefit students.

The recent action shows to what extent the employer is reliant upon staff goodwill to perform its most basic functions on a daily basis.

This is what happens when that goodwill is removed.

Is there ever industrial action in corporate jobs?

If they don't like the pay change jobs. I have no sympathy for them nor for teachers, doctors etc on strike. They have a much better deal than many in the private sector.

I’ve not seen it ever in private sector for my work (services)

Only redundancies which can be harsh and sweeping

They have a much better deal than many in the private sector.

They are in the private sector.

If my job was so bad it was affecting my marriage etc
I would look for a new job 🤷‍♀️

You clearly have zero knowledge if you think participation in the MAB is not a breach of your contract - it is partial performance and your employer is legally entitled to withhold pay up to 100% in those circumstances. Anything you continue to do is voluntary. So own your action and own the consequences if you have the courage of your convictions. All professional roles require a degree of goodwill. There’s a reason why so many PhD students aspire to academic roles, and that’s because academic terms, conditions and flexibility are generally better than most sectors.