Uni of Edinburgh not marking dissertations/final pieces of work - anyone else's DC affected?

[Iliketulips]

DD heard this afternoon that her dissertation and final pieces of work are not to be marked by Uni of Edinburgh. She is absolutely devastated right now as she wanted her true degree result and feedback on hours of work. She feels her most recent work is the best, so will never know if she could have got her grade up. Moving forward she was seriously considering studying a masters abroad abroad and also working abroad, but now uncertain if that's possible as she thinks they'll wanted an athenticated degree.

The Guardian seems to have a call out for information on this for an article - see link below. Time to make a fuss/get your student children to do so. The universities’ actions need to be widely covered
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jun/20/uk-graduates-have-you-been-affected-by-marking-boycotts

Interview with the VC of Edinburgh

https://twitter.com/ucu/status/1671434402763804673?s=46&t=DWl0YxHZLYmL9TlDJbiAiA

E

Edinburgh Student on Jeremy Vine on radio 2 at the moment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65965908
on the BBC website (although buried away in Education).

On a bit of a tangent, it appears UCU staff themselves are now striking due to redundancies at UCU
https://twitter.com/UniteUCU/status/1671797593754435586

This is getting surreal.

I am really worried that there it is no end in sight to this; no one is even talking so how can their be a resolution? Can they even say they’re graduates when there’s no award at all (my DS hasn’t even got a provisional mark)? All both sides are doing is pontificating about how right they are. Someone will have to take the first step - but when? They both seem happy to treat our children as collateral damage. What a world we live in.

I really feel for students. They’ve been treated poorly over the last few years and now this.

@Gettingthroughtheweek I completely agree and my DD (not Edinburgh) is in the same position. I've gone through my MP to the Department for Education, to the uni and to the UCEA and noone is prepared to actually do anything to restart negotiations. It's awful and I'm really furious and tense about the implications.

It seems to come down to a fundamental disagreement as to whether payrises are affordable. UCU tend to make really superficial arguments so it's hard to tell. Reading around it seems like an overhaul of the funding system is required, but there is no political motivation to do this.

It is awful. I am a member of staff and member of UCU and I feel awful.

Re. boycotting staff not caring about students, all I can say is that we care deeply about students, but that we cannot do the best for them if the trend of overworking and underpaying us continues year after year. We have to care about not just this cohort of students but all future students. If we didn't care about students, why would we be in this job? But I understand that when it's your kids affected, it's hard to see past that and again I'm sorry.

Re. neither side budging, boycotting staff are desperate for negotiations. We're now in week 10 of 50% of our pay being docked, despite working full time (at Edinburgh; in some places, pay has been docked 100%). And, we have been trying to address the trend of worsening pay and conditions since 2018, losing days of pay in the process. The marking boycott was the last resort. So for us to settle for another pay cut now, we will be accepting further pay cuts and increasing workloads for years to come - with all that implies for future students. That's why we feel we have to insist that it's the universities, who have record reserves of £44bn, who have to budge.

Re. UCU saying superficial things... you're right it's complicated and the union sometimes simplifies. But it's undeniable that universities have seen their income increase year on year, while squeezing staff pay in real terms every year since 2009. The more systemic problem is increased marketization of the sector where universities are placed in competition with each other for students fee income. This has led to a situation where some unis have hoovered up all the students and become richer and others have been left struggling for students and the associated fee income. Richer universities then use the financial state of the poorer ones as an excuse to refuse pay rises in line with inflation year after year. So the systemic problem is at the root of it, but I'd note that the union is trying to do something about that, suggesting caps on students for more even distribution and a return to block funding from government, as well as a fairer pay settlement (which can still be afforded by all institutions even with the wealth disparity).

I understand that many will still think a marking boycott is still just not acceptable. Several folk have said "of course your cause is just, but the tactic is not ok. There must be another way for you to achieve your goal" But what? If we knew, we'd be doing it.

I would be more sympathetic to the UCU position if the years of industrial action had been directed at the Universities themselves eg through non completion of REF, or grant funding applications. I would have thought that that would have had a direct impact on funding and might have got uni management round the table.

Maybe they have tried that already, but the UCU campaigns I’ve seen have been targeted on the student body, who have no way of impacting university management short of leaving altogether. Which might have been the best thing to do, with hindsight, as they now leave with massive debt, a pretty mixed experience to look back on and no degree. My younger DS is already saying he will go for an apprenticeship instead of Uni.

Yes, the HE funding structure is broken, but it’s not students who can change that. And nothing will move on that front in the timescale needed for this year’s cohort to get their degrees any time soon.

I just hope to see a commitment from the universities that when/if the boycott finishes they will focus resource on getting the outstanding marking completed and reconvene exam boards as a priority. I wish I could be confident of that.

We have to care about not just this cohort of students but all future students.

Hopefully there is a general care for students. Holding the line on the marking strike undermines the claim to care about this cohort. So many are worrying about the impact on their study/job plans. It's compounded by the fact individual students are being impacted differently. A train is cancelled all passengers are stuffed in the same way. This is variable depending upon how the course is assessed and who is/should be marking. They had an awful start three years ago and now what should be a celebratory finish is being utterly trashed.

I believe this will result in a fall in applicants. The marketisation of the sector is current reality and people are looking for value for money. Apprenticeships are looking far more appealing in terms of content, work experience and lack of debt. This would have been the time for universities to pull their socks up after the Covid debacle at many.

Unions have been known to alter the type of industrial action. I'm not sure there is an appreciation of how much this is reflecting badly on the sector. There must be other options that do not hit students at the level of the individual.

Try and justify it all you like,but targeting the final year students is quite simply disgusting and those doing that should be ashamed

@whatsofunnyaboutpeaceloveandunderstanding

I agree with you (and so does my DD).
I understand final year student's frustration. However suspect marking ban will not result in loss of job offers or postgraduate places for many.

@whatsofunnyaboutpeaceloveandunderstanding given home students are reputed to be educated at a loss to universities, is what you/UCU are suggesting effectively cap on the revenue generating overseas students? Then trying to distribute them across the sector? The challenge being they are not limited to the UK universities.

I agree reform is need in higher education funding.

I quit UCU for unrelated reasons and my sympathy is with the strikers, but I agree it is a huge mess and unfair to the graduating cohort.

The suggestion of boycotting the REF is interesting. Unfortunately given the relatively small numbers of UCU members, at least in STEM, universities could credibly respond by threatening to move boycotters to teaching contracts, or even make them redundant. Even though some of the top researchers in my School are UCU members, in the larger scheme of things the contribution of any relatively small group of people will not sway a policy decision of this nature. People are not going to risk their research, which is ultimately the core of their academic identity (in my university).

Are most people's gripes with the lecturers for striking or the university higher management?

How much is the striking academic getting paid yearly?

My gripe is with uni management. Salaries for new lecturer's shocking. DD knows someone whose first post paid £38k (she did 2 years post-doc and 4 years funded PhD). She's 28 and can't afford to live on her own

My 21 year old (scraped a 2:1) DS2 got more than that (plus bonuses and generous relocation/sign on) on his graduate scheme (management).

Indeed. First Brexit, then covid and now this. My son feels like it's a war on the young. I don't disagree with him.

They can strike and make a point without damaging the students' life chances. Refusing to mark finals is outrageous.

Refusing to teach the odd lecture makes the point in my view. I don't disagree they have a case to strike but you can choose how to do it.

How would you feel if teachers and exam boards refused to mark and award GCSEs, A levels or Highers? It's just the same.

We did spend years doing this,@lieselotte , when I was a UCU member. We only got further behind.

I do believe the strike is widespread enough that damage to life chances will be minimised. I encourage students and parents to remember that the issue is management’s refusal to engage and government’s refusal to get involved. This could be solved if people would talk. Meanwhile before even taking account of the CoL crisis we were 25% worse off than in 2008 from a pay base that was none too high to start with. And the benefits that were part of our thinking in accepting that pay base have now gone.

I favour a class action suit against the universities. Even if thrown out it would force them to engage. But I think the legal grounds are probably solid.

This is not a stand off between lecturers and their students. Students and staff alike are being treated extremely poorly by university management and UCEA. That's the point on which people should more aptly direct their anger.

Just look at the current situations within the likes of Birkbeck and UEA. They don't give a damn about any of the people - students or their teachers - propping up their wealthy (yes, they are) institutions and the ridiculously overinflated salaries of senior management.

They view the whole lot of us as expendable commodities. Worse, I'd go so far as to suggest they even have contempt for us; I have seen first-hand evidence of this. Once the students' backsides are on those seats, any suggestion that they 'care' about their wellbeing is just noise to keep them there and attract more student revenue in the future.

If you suppose it's within any university's remit to 'care' about students, or to act in loco parentis as newly seems to be expected nowadays, you're kidding yourself. And if you do believe students are owed as much by their universities, why do you assume that responsibility lies solely with their lecturers and not university management, where the buck actually stops? Why blame workers - exploited to the tune of 60+ hours per week who do a sizeable proportion of the job on a 'goodwill' (ie free) basis; who are threatened with 100% pay-docks for working to contract, and only doing what they are paid to do - whilst those running the show cream all the profits whilst redirecting the blame for their own shortcomings?

You are being had. And so are we, the lecturers.

The lecturers are refusing to mark the final year students work
That is a choice they have made and I condemn them for it

I blame the government for increasing home student numbers without a sustainable plan for financing and for freezing tuition fees at a level increasingly insufficient to fund courses.

I have some sympathies for university management, as having stared hard at various reports and figures I don't see how a 12% payrise is in their gift. Even the 5 to 8% offered looks questionable. Also they cannot act alone, so an individual university cannot end the dispute locally. I cannot justify a 40k payrise for the vice chancellor, and I'm sure there have been bad finacial decisions in a bid to raise future funds.

The university and UCEA appear to be treating this like a toddler tantrum and not explaining their position. Maybe with good reason, ie existing revenue streams will decrease if they highlight how precarious their finances are.

UCEA say UCU withdrew from negotiations and they are waiting for them to return, whereas UCU say the opposite (just a lot louder).

All sides seem to have their heads buried in the sand over consequences. Tuition fee rises? Reduction in student numbers? Move to mass education for some courses? Staff redundancies?

I support the academics right to strike, but I think they need to own the consequences of their actions.

I also think student unions should be advocating for students, including those graduating this year.