Uni of Edinburgh not marking dissertations/final pieces of work - anyone else's DC affected?

[Iliketulips]

DD heard this afternoon that her dissertation and final pieces of work are not to be marked by Uni of Edinburgh. She is absolutely devastated right now as she wanted her true degree result and feedback on hours of work. She feels her most recent work is the best, so will never know if she could have got her grade up. Moving forward she was seriously considering studying a masters abroad abroad and also working abroad, but now uncertain if that's possible as she thinks they'll wanted an athenticated degree.

Forgot to say, from what I can gather there's been no mention of them graduating, marking done later and then marks adjusted - there'd still be some upset and disappointment, but I think many would accept this.

Assuming students have a minimum number of credits, I can’t see any university having a policy other than graduating students and adjusting the marks later. The reason it won’t have been announced is because universities are still adjusting regulations and working out how their systems can cope with this.

Students at 145 UK universities will be hit by the marking boycott

Edinburgh's academic year starts earlier and ends earlier than the majority of UK universities. Edinburgh students are starting exams this week. What happens in Edinburgh will be mirrored elsewhere.

My university’s idea of declaring “in a timely manner” is by the time of the exam board. Nine weeks after the boycott starts.

You'd have been paid by then though. Will they ask for your salary back? Mine wants the declaration two weeks before each pay period.

They’re going to be making deductions in the August payroll, apparently. Which means that some staff will receive no salary in August.

Ah bless you.

It is an awful situation for everyone, but academics’ conditions have eroded on par with those of NHS staff, teachers and others whose strikes have gained more public support.

The anger here is understandable because it is about the fierce love of parents for a cohort of DC who have already been let down by the policies of their uni leadership around Covid. (Covid policies were also hugely demanding of lecturers.) That leadership could be engaging now, and is not.

Eventually may mean missed jobs and missed opportunities though.
To the same cohort who have had previous exams messed up already.

The 'people dying' re doctor strikes isn't quite the same to me. People are dying due to an underfunded nhs as it is. And during strikes emergency operation and skeleton staff (which is almost the same as day today staffing due to the staff/funding issues) are still in place.

The whole thing is horrible anyway and the government are to blame for much of the strikes.

But the withholding of marks for final year students after 3 years of uncertainty, which may have serious impacts in their ability to secure employment and research places, etc, just seems wrong to me. It might not to others, but for me it just doesn't sit right.

Are you joking? What a completely patronising post. Delays means job opportunities lost, students missing graduation due to visa issues, and anxiety for a cohort that have already had the worst experiences of higher education due to covid.

I thought universities were privately run but with contracts with the government for providing degrees. I didn’t think they were public sector.

They aren’t.

If I were a student activist instead of standing with the left wing lecturers who have been on constant strikes even back when my twins started in 2017, I would be applying for some kind of emergency court injunction requiring the marking to be done even if the university has to hire in new people at big cost.

Plenty of graduates only get their job if they meet a requirement for a certain grade eg my first job even in the 1980s was conditional on a 2/1 so delay has massive implications for future income for years to come.

There is already a group action by the way more generally - https://studentgroupclaim.co.uk/

Oh my god these poor students. This cohort have been really dumped on through their whole university experience. So sad.

Disgraceful. Most of my DS1 learning has been online for 3 years with a lot of peers marking work. He is at a RG Uni and I have been less than impressed.

I would be applying for some kind of emergency court injunction requiring the marking to be done even if the university has to hire in new people at big cost.

As a head of department, I am hiring in markers, but there are limits. There are very finite numbers of specialists in particular areas, as well as very limited numbers willing to undermine strike action. When it comes to marking final year work I have to make a judgement between getting the work marked in time for the exam board and getting the work marked reliably.

I recently took issue with the union for reasons irrelevant to this discussion and resigned, but my heart is, regrettably, with the strikers. Academic staff are on their knees and have been for years through a conflation of events. It is particularly bad for the young.

Having said that, I think @Xenia has a good idea, partly because of the practicalities with hiring markers discussed by @GCAcademic . This might motivate uni leadership like nothing else.

Financial positions across the sector vary, but my uni and others are sitting on large reserves. The current shit show has its roots in greed and poor management introduced with the current fee structure. I don’t think leadership, much less HMG, are going to pay attention until a major financial threat forces them to. I hate believing that.

PS I may have said the bit about hiring markers in a confused manner. My point is that when HoDs explain that doing so is impossible - in my field it is - perhaps leadership will listen.

Xenia · Today 09:55
I would be applying for some kind of emergency court injunction requiring the marking to be done even if the university has to hire in new people at big cost.

Xenia, I know you believe 'Britain has had enough of experts', but you clearly live in cloud-cuckoo land if you think a university can simply go down to a job centre and simply round up a few dozen people to mark final exams and dissertations.

(Oddly, I often wonder how those who follow this 'who needs experts' mantra would react if a retired plumber showed up as the surgical lead to perform their heart bypass operation. After all, a retired plumber is more qualified than most to sort blockages!)

Xenia, I know you believe 'Britain has had enough of experts', but you clearly live in cloud-cuckoo landif you think a university can simply go down to a job centre and simply round up a few dozen people to mark final exams and dissertations.

I will be taking on extra marking myself to mitigate the effect on students. But, with the best will in the world, I - as a senior academic - am not sufficiently specialised to mark the assessment for some of my striking colleagues' final year modules with the accuracy that is needed, and which students have the right to expect. I can manage with some modules, but not all. Nor can I hire in markers to take on these modules; they don't exist. It is not like school where there is a national curriculum and hundreds - if not thousands - of people around who can mark a particular paper. In the case of a few specialist modules, it will be a case of waiting for striking staff to return to work and an interim classification being awarded at the exam board. That is a preferable outcome to inaccurate marks being issued.

The Union should have gone for a MAB much earlier in the dispute. I suppose they would have done were it not for the Pandemic and its impact on students. But it's the only thing which puts real pressure on the University management, including financial pressure.

Most striking lecturers are quite keen on the idea of students campaigning/taking action to get compensation or refunds, and have been throughout the strike. Suing to get assessments completed by other means would, I suspect, be seen as ok.

Most striking lecturers are quite keen on the idea of students campaigning/taking action to get compensation or refunds, and have been throughout the strike. Suing to get assessments completed by other means would, I suspect, be seen as ok.

They may be less keen when the find out that those costs are borne by individual academic departments, so less money for their research, for paying tutors, etc.. Meanwhile, their salary deductions from the strike go into the university’s coffers. The financial impact is on their own departments, not the university.

I'm a Prof in a RG university. Edinburgh's announcement (if this is accurate) seems overly dramatic and designed to spread alarm. Yes, there is a MAB, and realistically it is incredibly unlikely that external markers can be found who are (a) capable and (b) willing. But very few students these days are graded solely on exams taken at the end of year 3. Undergraduates in my department have their degree classifications based on all second and third year work. Masters students are assessed throughout the year. This means that everything up to April is already in, marked and externally assessed. Universities have a lot of information on which to award degrees.

What will probably happen (well, what I would do) is award degrees based on the work to date, then adjust later once the last few marks are in (and they will be marked, nothing lasts forever) but with the proviso of a no detriment clause so that no marks are reduced even if the belated assessments would result in a lower grade (some universities did this at the start of the lockdowns).

Yes it is stressful. No, it isn't desirable. But most students are fairly consistent. Hopefully for the majority it will be fine, they will get their jobs, their places for future study etc. Please tell them not to panic. They will get both feedback and marks on their dissertations, but it might be a few weeks later than originally scheduled.

I don't want to minimise what they are going through and I do realise what a terrible time many of our current students have had between Covid lockdowns and industrial action. But please urge your DC not to get distressed.

I am angry at all of them in all sectors. All happy to take covid support /work from home which has indebted the UK massively but as soon as vaccinations have made it safe to work normally again, they are all out on strike like a re-run of the Winter of discontent.
Morally it is worse for doctors and nurses to go on strike as lives are at risk.
Those in education are unlikely to cause any deaths directly but they should bear in mind the negative impact of covid on the recent University/school experience and maybe think twice about whether this is going to work out, since the lecturers' dispute has seemingly been ongoing for years with the employers not budging.

2019 to now sounds such a tough time for all this

@summerisontheway, you come across as extremely ill-informed,.

Just because you were able to sit at home and avail of the pandemic supports, don't presume that the healthcare sector and university sector were able to do the same.

Healthcare workers and the university sector worked extremely hard during the pandemic. University lecturers had to work doubly hard, converting face-to-face lectures to online delivery. Healthcare workers put their lives on the line and went above and beyond to keep the health services functioning. Both of these sectors are very poorly paid in the UK in comparison to elsewhere.

DD has been seriously considering a masters abroad at some point in the near future to the extent she has found the perfect course for her if it's still available in 18 months. She's concerned they won't accept her without a proven degree there and trying to find out. If not, it's already messed up her future plans.

I do understand it's not ideal for those working in universities right now. However, DD has effectively prepaid to have her dissertation, final pieces marked. Where I work it's not great either, but if we strike and the end consumer doesn't like it, they can easily take their money elsewhere as they pay once deal is completed.