To be OK with DS not aiming for the top?

[Devotedtomydogs]

DS2 has seen the amount of work DS1 gets at Cambridge and has no desire to apply there or to any other top tier RG uni. In any event, he would not get the grades for Oxbridge/Durham/St A etc - but his predictions suggest Bristol, Exeter, York etc would be feasible.

However, DS insists that he wants to go to a tier below that because he would rather thrive at a slightly ‘lesser’ uni than struggle at a top RG uni. He is not a particularly confident boy and hates being bottom of the class (he is at a super selective 6th form surrounded by DC predicted A stars, whereas he is predicted AAB and should achieve that but not higher).

He likes the look of Liverpool, Leicester and Cardiff so far but also has Nottingham and Newcastle on his list to visit. All v good universities and I am happy and understand DS’ reasoning. DH on the other hand says he should be aiming higher. What do people reckon?

I'd be okay with that.

I would regard all the universities on your list as good universities.

So I'm not really sure about the point of your post.

I think it's worth encouraging a DC to aim high for university, both because it's likely they will have a strong peer group and because the department is more likely to be cutting edge in terms of research. But all both those things will still likely be true at the universities on your list!

In my experience getting a 2:1 at an RG uni is considerably easier than getting A level grades that grant you access to the RG uni at a state sixth form/college. The pace of work is much slower. Oxbridge is a totally different kettle of fish and wouldn't have been for me either.
Has he been to any RG/plate glass uni open days? Talked to any recent students? I would ensure he does this before he makes a decision.

Depends what he wants to do afterwards. Most of the big graduate schemes don't care about the university so it's a good choice to aim for somewhere where he feels he'll be happy and successful.

Liverpool is RG by the way

Thankfully it’s not your husband’s decision and if he keeps trying to force his opinion on your DS or belittle his choices, their relationship will suffer as a result.

As you say, all perfectly good universities, he’s hardly throwing his life away.

If your DS doesn’t want more pressure than he thinks he can handle, good for him for speaking up.

Make sure you stand up to your DH on his behalf.

He should be aiming to go where he will be happiest - my only ask when DT’s were deciding on where they wanted to go.

I think all the ones you listed are as good as the others - eg Nottingham as good as York - I thought you were going to go on to say he was looking at ex polys. I'd be fine with this too.

Well, the aim of Uni is to get qualifications and to have a great experience doing it, with a view to getting into work that you want.
You don't get that from only the top Unis.

Exactly this.

I think it's a good thing that your son knows himself well and has views on what would suit him. He may be wrong but none of you can know that, as we can't see into the future.

If he goes somewhere he feels happy about, he is more likely to thrive and do well, and he will end up in a position to get a graduate post / training. You won't know what the path never trodden might have led to, and anyway, it's his life, not yours or your DH's.

I can't understand why parents can't just be supportive to their child. Why pressure them and risk alienation or mental breakdown for their child? And if he does make a mistake, that's his mistake and most things can be worked around, one way or another.

Yes! Happiness is everything.

Sounds like your DS has his head screwed on.

Those five he lists are all great Universities and also great cities to live in.

He'll also probably find himself not having to go through the stress of waiting until April/May for responses to his applications - something a lot of us in this year's entry are still doing for Durham, Bristol, Edinburgh etc

In my experience getting a 2:1 at an RG uni is considerably easier than getting A level grades that grant you access to the RG uni at a state sixth form/college.

Not at all RG unis - my dc is at Imperial and, having done 4 A levels to A star level, is having to work VERY hard. It is well taught and enjoyable but a lot work. You've really got to enjoy the subject and work hard!

It does seem strange to use "the amount of work they get at Cambridge" as a measure of "the amount of work they get at York" and to make decisions based upon that.

Nothing wrong with your DS choosing a university based on overall work/life balance but in your place I'd hope to see him getting accurate assessments of how that work/life balance actually pans out (which he may have been doing and you just didn't explicitly mention). If he's just assuming that RG universities will be more work than non-RG universities then that's probably misguided.

Absolutely go where he wants to especially as he has the insight to acknowledge this about himself.

Do the less prestigious universities ‘hand hold’/direct students more? I worry about my DC just drifting along at a top RG in due course and am hoping to find a uni that doesn’t spoon feed like school of course but does offer more help

Liverpool is RG by the way

So are Nottingham, Newcastle and Cardiff.

OP said "top tier" RG, whatever that means.

I don't think there's a clear line between 'RG' and 'others'. It really depends on the university. RG is just a marketing tool and in any case relates to research intensiveness, which may or may not be relevant to an undergraduate.

For my first degree (accounting) I found that a high proportion of marks from less well regarded universities came from open book pop quizzes and group projects, with no peer review (so the entire group got the same marks regardless of who actually did the work). Exam questions similar to class work, although they didn't form much of the grade anyway.
More 'well regarded' had a mix of essays and projects requiring presentations with individual marks. More complexity of thought required in exams and other output.

However for very academic STEM degrees like Mathematics there isn't a lot of difference. Perhaps in the choice of modules (e.g. allowing one to 'bulk up' the degree with easier applied/non-STEM modules if one was so inclined) but the content is similar across universities.

In any case for me the biggest difference is the level of career support and ambition of the surrounding students. Coming from a non-traditional uni background (parents got degrees when I was a teenager) talking to seniors, career coaching and employer talks were very useful. I went to a career path I hadn't initially considered.

DP's 'lower ranked' university had one CS workshop, a couple of skills workshops and that was it. He was one of the few in his cohort to get onto a good graduate scheme. They did have career fairs but it was mostly SME's.

IMO if you're doing a 'generic' STEM/Humanities degree it's more important to get yourself to a uni which allows you to explore. If you're on a certain career path then a uni with strong placement links to niche employers would be better.

Also OP all the universities you mention are perfectly respectable choice. Your son is deluded though if the thinks they will be 'less work' than a 'top RG'.

I worry about my DC just drifting along at a top RG in due course

If your dc is interested in their subject then they shouldn't need 'hand holding' imo

Also... Durham and St A are certainly not in the same league as Oxbridge, no matter how hard they try to market themselves.
Durham has a collegiate system and St A is where all the posh people (like Will a K) go but that has nothing to do with their academic ability output.

I don’t understand the obsession with Exeter. Just because it admits massive amounts of privately educated students doesn’t mean it’s better than other RG universities. Absolutely weird.

@Newnametostayanon what do you mean by 'help'?
I think the friends they make are a bigger influence than uni. No uni, RG or otherwise is going to remind you to do the work.
If you have a good group to study together, etc then you help each other out. My 'prestigious' uni had a reputation for being cutthroat but it wasn't like that at all. I got a group balance of friends to study with across modules. We shared notes and stuff.
You also had the 'last minute' group who were forever prioritising other things and getting into a last minute scramble, if your son falls in and is influence by people like that it's a bigger problem.

What does he want to do for work post-uni? Does he know? Going to study somewhere he’s happy with (even if the course at uni x is identical to uni y really) sounds a good idea.