Dual Degrees

[mrsconradfisher]

Following on from yesterdays huge disappointment about being rejected from Sports Science at Loughborough, he has spent all day searching UCAS for courses still available through extra and has come across one which he is very interested in (in fact it’s the most excited I’ve seen him since the Loughborough open day!). It’s a Dual Sports Science degree with Portsmouth and a University in Perth in Australia, 4 years in total. Year 1/2 here, Year 3 in Australia then 6 months in Australia at the end of Year 4.
Apart from the fact that we have no idea about Portsmouth so would need a trip to see what it’s like…any other downsides? You apparently get 2 actual degrees, a U.K. sports science one then an Australian Equivalent.

Research has next to no impact on UG teaching or experience.

That's really not true. It's an urban myth.

Do you want to be taught by the people actually DOING the research you're being taught? Or people who don't produce original research (so a sort of extension of school ...)

Ah so it is different - a UK degree is usually an honours degree although I guess the difference is we specialise early? Do most students do their honours year?

@mybeautifuloak
Everyone knows StA, Lancaster, Bath and Loughborough are also elite. It doesn’t matter if shorthand says “RG.” We all know it’s RG Plus a few. The Post 92 group also had distinct membership. Do you have an issue with them? Probably not so
just accept universities agree to being in groups.

Of course research matters. Universities are places of learning. Not stagnation. In addition, research from the IFS shows RG plus grads have better salaries. Harsh but true.

He loved Surrey but seems crazy to put that as Firm when he had a great offer from a Highly Ranking RG.

@mrsconradfisher don't look at the overall standings, look at the subject-specific ones – Surrey is at least on a par with Birmingham for sports science (Newcastle is at the same level) and is highly thought of in that field.

Your DS should absolutely NOT go to a university he doesn't like very much in preference to an equivalent one he does like simply because of the RG tag. That would be a mistake.

Newcastle is RG too. The slightly unusual one now in the mix is Portsmouth. I’m not entirely sure which gives better employment prospects. That is surely the desired outcome of the degree(s)? Rankings might not matter that much.

mrsc , if I remember rightly , he wasn't able to go to the offer holder day at Birmingham ? Do you think that ahs made a difference? They can be dreadful(we had this discussion on a prior thread!) sometimes , but they can also be really inspiring and I wonder if just he poor Open Day has affected his outlook and now he is tempted to choose Portsmouth without having ever been there at all?

Could he perhaps take another visit to Birmingham? Even phone department up and see if he can chat to someone?

This is a link to the QS World ranking. It's hard to get on this list (albeit it's as problematic as using any other league table). Loughborough is top in the world so that is the challenge he set himself.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2023/sports-related-subjects?&page=0

However, look at 6th, and you'll find Birmingham, just above Bath.

I'm not saying he should change his mind just because of these details but it might alter his mindset?

Mind, Edith Cowan is on there, too, at 33rd.

Thank you so so much, honestly this when Mumsnet can be so supportive. I’ve just sent this to him (he’s currently on the way to work).
You are right, he didn’t go to the Offer Holder Day as it was the same day as Surrey and he thought it would be more useful as he had already discounted Birmingham (and was so hopeful for Loughborough).
I think after lots of discussion yesterday he has decided against Portsmouth, just too many unknowns to make a decision via Extra.
The choice now is to stick with Birmingham or change to Newcastle.
Pro’s to Birmingham is that it’s ranked higher, slightly closer to home, he’s actually visited and like the Uni itself. Cons are the lack of placement year and he didn’t particularly like Birmingham (I’m sure that was due to the day we went though). Also less inspiring modules. But he has a place with a good offer.
Pros of Newcastle are a placement year, great modules (although it looks like they are all compulsory and you can’t choose them but they are ones he would choose anyway).
Cons are it’s incredibly far from home (which was the reason he didn’t apply there in the first place), he has never visited and he is slightly concerned about the randomness of accommodation allocation but need to investigate that more.
My gut feeling is Firm Birmingham then Insure Surrey and see what happens in the summer, if he ends up with A star A star A then maybe a gap year and reapply to Loughborough.

I did notice Brum do an optional overseas year? Australia is popular.

I agree the city of Birmingham isn't a looker but it's great for shopping, bars and so on and has lots of sports venues (DS has been to see Birmingham twice) and fabulous transport links for students.

Newcastle is a more attractive city for sure and in a nicer part of he country , scenery wise - but I'm not sure how much students get out and about these days unless they are very outdoorsy. I went to York and we wet for a lot of trips out , but I had a friend with a car and York is a lovely city just to amble around. DS applied to York but me saying 'ooh, you can go for walks on the Walls and visit the Minster' didn't seem to sway him to York over Birmingham...!

And... (honestly Brum should be paying me for this!), I looked at earnings on Discover Uni. Birmingham grads in sports science earn considerably above average earnings so , given this is a crowded field for employment, that's a a very good sign.

I'm bored, so off to look up Newcastle!

Newcastle

https://discoveruni.gov.uk/course-details/10007799/objid52173877/FullTime/ bang on average earnings

Birmingham

https://discoveruni.gov.uk/course-details/10007799/objid52173877/FullTime/

5k above the average

Surrey
https://discoveruni.gov.uk/course-details/10007160/UCB10F0001U/FullTime/

Again, well above average although seems to be using different averages, confusingly.

My gut feeling is Firm Birmingham then Insure Surrey and see what happens in the summer, if he ends up with A star A star A then maybe a gap year and reapply to Loughborough.

Sounds a good plan. Quite a few of my son's friends are taking gap years, some resitting an A level and others reapplying with known grades. I also know one boy who's been re-offered by Imperial for engineering which is very competitive. So your son may well have still the option of Loughborough if that's where he really wants to go.

I couldn't persuade my son but there was a fantastic looking gap year scheme in Australia and NZ where you taught sports at a school and they put all the Gappies in an apartment together. Looked a great way to spend a gap year if you like sport.

Honestly you are amazing…thank you so so much! I’ve looked at so many websites and just got totally confused and overwhelmed. I think the problem with Birmingham itself for him is that it was way too busy however we went on the first day of the Christmas Market so it was bound to be heaving. We live in a sleepy market town in Norfolk so wherever he goes is going to seem busy!
I did suggest to DS that he could visit my friend in Newcastle if he went there…he looked at me like I had 2 heads and said why would I want to visit a random woman I have never met! I pointed out that in an emergency a random friend of mine living in the same city might actually be quite useful!

I did see that about the year abroad at Birmingham, they didn’t mention that either in the course talk!! But that’s definitely got an appeal…I think he’d rather the US rather than Oz if he had the choice (despite the Portsmouth being Australia)

The Christmas Market is quite claustrophobic. It's not normally that packed!

I think the good thing about Birmingham campus is that it is a bit of a bubble, away from the heaving city masses. But getting to the City and around it is so easy.

I can’t help think if he gets the grades he will be forever wishing he was at Loughborough no matter where he is. I’m not even convinced Loughborough is the right place for him, he’s very sporty but by no means an elite athlete so is unlikely to be in Uni teams. He however thinks Loughborough is the golden ticket to huge opportunities in the sporting industry…I have pointed out that it’s not necessarily all that he thinks it is!
The Gap Year teaching sport sounds perfect for him…will get him to investigate thank you.

I can’t help think if he gets the grades he will be forever wishing he was at Loughborough no matter where he is.

I can sympathise. There's nothing more disappointing that 'the one that got away' and Loughborough is very well regarded for sports related degrees (and engineering).

I had the same feeling from our visit to Birmingham, loved the campus part with the tower but found the city centre a bit much (even though I'm used to big cities).

It's so hard when you're managing the expectations of teenagers. We can see a good solution but they can struggle to be rational about it when their heart is set on something and you feel sorry for them as it's a lottery at times. One of my son's friends had an offer from Cambridge, achieved four A stars in his A levels but didn't pass the Step (?) paper. Started at another excellent uni and has dropped out to reapply to Oxford this time as he feels it's unfinished business.

Started at another excellent uni and has dropped out to reapply to Oxford this time as he feels it's unfinished business.

I know that Cambridge won't accept students who have started university elsewhere in the UK. Do Oxford have the same rule?

You have probably already checked this but I thought I should mention it on the off chance just in case it is an issue.

Actually I don't know the answer to that question but I'd be amazed if he hadn't checked it before he left his current uni.

My point was only that some kids find it hard to readjust their ambitions if they don't end up at the uni they particularly wanted. Others are happy to go somewhere else and don't give it a second thought.

Pro’s to Birmingham is that it’s ranked higher

It isn't really, you know – 10th to 12th. In the UK Rankings table about the only differentiator is the 'Entry Standards' metric and that is mostly irrelevant. Don't pay too much attention to the QS World Rankings, they use all sorts of weird metrics which tell you very little about the under-graduate experience.

I have no dog in this fight – all 3 of mine have finished university and none of them went to any of the universities mentioned in this thread. I'm just concerned that OP thinks that Birmingham is a better choice than Newcastle when in truth there is so little to choose between them it won't make any difference. So on that basis he should go to the one he prefers. Or have another go at Loughborough next year.

Thank you, that’s really helpful. There are so many lists and tables to look at and quite frankly my head is spinning and so is DS. I think if he had initially picked Newcastle and Birmingham it would have made it slightly easier as would just be which one he prefers. As he didn’t, to pick Newcastle involves declining everything and doing UCAS extra for a Uni he hasn’t seen in a City we haven’t ever visited. He spent all last night after work watching campus tours and reading online and he likes the look of Newcastle and the modules on the course. It just feels crazy for him to decline a lower offer at Birmingham (only by 1 grade) to go for something he has never seen.
In case it isn’t completely obvious, he hates making decisions even down to where to go on holiday so making a huge decision like this when he was so focused on Loughborough feels completely overwhelming especially in the middle of trying to revise.

Earnings tend to be related to area. NE isn’t known for higher incomes. I would look at percentage getting grad work. Are the grads in suitable work? You also make your own luck to some extent.

Hi 👋 Op@mrsconradfisher

Perth is a lovely Place in Australia 🇦🇺
My daughter has lived there for several years

Now,
Made lots of friends has a good job out there,

I say go for it,

It sounds good a dual degree like that, opportunity too,
Funny enough my daughter was studying sports science in college too one time, but dropped subject to study something else,

That's also in the Discover Uni stats.

@Piggywaspushed
How can they factor in making your own luck? Success in a job and earnings is rarely solely down to degree. Personality, contacts, even applying for better paid jobs is down to individuals. Not a specific course.