Best universities for English Lit

[Rollergirl11]

DD is in Year 12 taking 3 A-levels and doing an EPQ. Current predictions are 2 x A star and 1 A. She’s hopeful she can get the A to an A star.

What unis would you say have the best reputation? She knows that the courses differ wildly and she needs to investigate this. Just going by the league tables (that are all fairly different) the general consensus seems to be:

Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, UCL, Durham, York, Warwick, Lancaster and potentially Exeter.

We are in the south east so think the Scottish unis are too far so that discounts St Andrews. Also UCL too close and too expensive and DD doesn’t want to stay at home to study. Her college have her on their Oxbridge program and out of the two she favours Cambridge over Oxford for course content.

So far then she has a very loose list which is: Cambridge, Durham, York, Warwick, Lancaster and Exeter.

Are there any other obvious places she should be thinking about?

I posted some employability ranking of RG+ unis upthread tizer. You seem to think people are arguing with you when they aren't... at no point have I said 'go to Bedfordshire'.

However, people do do English degrees (at literally every uni - sneering at the choice of Bedfordshire is a low blow when some people cannot afford uni at all otherwise. The mature students, local and particularly local BME students massively improve their own life prospects at Beds Uni ). And if they want to, they should not be denigrated for this and told their only choice should be entirely reductive an utilitarian. They want to be educated, inspired, moved, motivated. They want to enjoy themselves, too, and be well taught and supported.

The OP's DD is already making good choices.

Employers want a 2:1 or first. Firsts are over rated on MN. Employers want more than that. Someone with a first in a English doesn’t really stand out. It can mean you e not done much else!

Just doing what you know and like is self limiting. At a top class university, why would other literature be dull? Part of maturing is challenging yourself and succeeding. Not just doing what you like. It’s counter productive and not what employers really want. They want the transferable skills. The ability to do something new that’s unfamiliar. Maybe even a critical thinker snd risk taker? Not someone who just picks the easiest route.

DD was asked at an interview about her achievements at university. She said her year abroad. You are out of your comfort zone. You have to make a go of it. It’s a challenge. She was attending lectures in two different languages. Some are a bit tedious. It’s life. It made her realise just how good her university was in the uk! I think people who get out of their comfort zone are the most employable and they can demonstrate far more at interview regardless of a 2:1.

You seem as if you want to pick a fight. I'm sure all employers want different things, but my point is that choosing a course you're likely to do well at is a pretty sensible strategy.

I think you're not wrong that it's self-limiting to do only what you know and like, but that isn't the same as choosing to study something you are really interested in. And, that can be something that takes you out of your comfort zone, can't it? My specialism is one that regularly crops up on students' lists of what they think will be intimidating and difficult (it isn't), but people often choose it precisely because they are curious about what it might involve.

DD wants to do an English degree because she has a passion for literature and writing and has done since she was in primary school. She doesn’t know for sure what she wants to do for a career; maybe journalism, or publishing. Perhaps she will write fiction, which is her dream, although she is pragmatic that the odds are not in her favour in terms of carving out a successful and reliable career in that field.

It is sad to hear that English isn’t especially respected by employers. I’d be interested to hear if it is the same for degrees like History or Philosophy which I would class as similar potentially “navel gazing” subjects. Having said that I don’t think DD will care. She wants to study English because it is her passion and I admire her determination and conviction in this.

I don't know where the evidence is that employers don't 'rate' English.

I don’t really want a fight. However on mn it seems a thing that potential students only want a certain type of course with options that 100% suit them. They are often very narrow. They are always humanities type courses. You never get a prospective doctor saying they want to study the heart and nothing but the heart! I believe students should study a reasonably wide range of literature. The best courses do this.

Doing well with a 2:1 is just fine. No employer just chooses people with firsts. I can assure you of that. English isn’t great for graduate employment. So doing a lot for the cv snd getting a 2:1 is perfectly ok. A first really isn’t an advantage these days with sophisticated recruitment techniques. Academia views it differently but no one else is bothered!

Plenty of student medics have an idea of a preferred specialism. And all English courses will offer a general grounding. It's not weird to expect to specialise within that.

I mentioned firsts purely as shorthand for 'doing well'.

Not all doom and gloom for English graduates, pretty much all of our large Marketing department are have either an English or English and a language degree. It’s almost a prerequisite and a very talented bunch they are.

Here’s the report from the IFS. No discernible uplift in salary with a first in English. It’s the same as a 2:2 apparently!

What's your point, though?

For some people, a 2.2 will have required a lot of work and effort (ie., it won't invariably mean someone was just lazy). If you choose your course with an eye to studying what you're particularly drawn to, that could make you achieve more highly than if you studied something you didn't particularly go in for - it's as relevant if you're working at 2.2 level as at first level.

There are some people who exclusively recruit people with first class degrees from certain universities. A first class degree won't ultimately get them a job but it will get them a coveted seat across the table from an interviewer. I have friends who work in HR at a number of city firms. It is not a firm wide policy, but is practiced by certain hiring managers.

I find your reading of the Times league tables, very selective @Piggywaspushed, why are you singling out Edinburgh, and not mentioning that it’s ranked above Leeds, Birmingham, Bristol, Leicester, Sheffield, Nottingham and Manchester to give just a few examples of other places mentioned here. Plus the percentage points between each “ranking” are tiny. No axe to grind here, just find it odd. Whatever, I’d agree with @TizerorFizz that an overall university brand is a better marker than a student satisfaction survey with all its variants and I would caution ppl not to believe randomers on the internet

Not singling it out at all! The other unis are mentioned by me in the employment stats, some of them, so do please read all my posts. I was simply responding to I think two posts that said Edinburgh was a good choice for English. And I just don't particularly support that view. Earlier I commented on Leicester.

Manchester and Nottingham have never been mentioned. I also wouldn't recommend them for English, if that makes it better.

What would I know? Just an English teacher....

Tbh, I've just reread that post and it's rude to call me a randomer on the internet. Pretty sure my knowledge base is better for answering the OP's actual question than a few other people's. I woukd say the same for Sarahandquack who has huge expertise and wisdom. I hope OP has found that helpful.

Honestly, I wish I had never mentioned Edinburgh now. I feel a bit attacked for countering some established view.

Sorry not meant to be rude but no one knows you are who you say you are (I’m sure you are who you say, but we don’t know) that is the nature of this site, everyone here is a random er. You seem to be using one league table as evidence of something when that league table shows tiny percentage points between rankings and also puts Bedfordshire above places like Leeds you recommend. I just think these stats aren’t gospel and I wouldn’t use them to push a student to Aberdeen, to use one example, over Leeds. Let’s leave it there

@ForeverbyJudyBlume
It really shows teachers shouldn’t advise on university choices. They don’t have a broad enough view of the jobs market. Too focussed on course content and not enough on outcomes. Fine if it never matters to you because you never move on from your English degree but not so great if your future job, not in teaching, and therefore income is at stake.

Also @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting name and shame! What managers override recruitment policy in what firms? Many managers don’t get to see degree classification or university. Anyone who just looks at a narrow field of applicants is an idiot. Having said that, firsts can earn more in some sectors. However that’s not a given as the IFS shows.

From my experience I agree 2:2 in English doesn’t make much difference in earnings - I earn £250k+ with an English 2:2 from Exeter (state school) in an interesting and very rewarding career. I think it’s sad that people are vilified for choosing to study something they have a genuine interest in. Obviously I wasn’t a stellar academic but I had a love of literature which stays with me. When you are 18 surely it’s the time to follow your passions? I know lots of people in marketing/media etc with English degrees who are doing very well. It’s not all about STEM/Economics etc.

It really shows teachers shouldn’t advise on university choices.

Gee whizz that's rude. What makes you the oracle on advice? I am not 'just' a teacher. We have contact with unis, employers, ex students and how they got on. You have no links to English HE. Not one. Literally all your info comes from data and your own values.

I agree judy leave it there. I looked at all three league tables. The reason I mentioned The Times was because another poster had quoted the CUG as a definitive source.

@Rideawildswan can i ask what your hob is if it isn't too outing ?
My DS will be starting an English Lit degree this year and I'm interested in career options.

@Rollergirl11 My DS applied for Durham, York, Bristol, Manchester and Sheffield. He has hs offers from 4 - still waiting for Durham 🙄. He had no interest in Oxford or Cambridge.

PS judy, just to add briefly...it wasn't me that recommended Leeds, albeit its a fine choice.

OP, who would think a thread about Eng Lit could get so heated. Some really rude responses on here. We are all 'randomers' on the internet. But Piggy has a very long track record and it would be difficult to amass all that knowledge without actually doing the job. Tizer is always forthright but seems to have lost the ability to remain civil recently.

Happy to say I know nothing about good places for Eng Lit, but I hope your DD finds somewhere good for her.

I really haven’t. You ought to read the bile directed at me! Always from the “experts”. Usually based around the fact I am not a teacher and how dare I have an opinion! Censorship really. I don’t take kindly to censorship.

Anyway many DC are well advised to listen to advice outside the goldfish bowl of school. Most non teachers tend to think listening to a spectrum of advice is better. Listening to someone who thinks Bedfordshire (her local university?) is better then Edinburgh should be called out. Shoot the messenger if you like, but I’m right.

Here’s the evidence from the IFS.