Best universities for English Lit

[Rollergirl11]

DD is in Year 12 taking 3 A-levels and doing an EPQ. Current predictions are 2 x A star and 1 A. She’s hopeful she can get the A to an A star.

What unis would you say have the best reputation? She knows that the courses differ wildly and she needs to investigate this. Just going by the league tables (that are all fairly different) the general consensus seems to be:

Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, UCL, Durham, York, Warwick, Lancaster and potentially Exeter.

We are in the south east so think the Scottish unis are too far so that discounts St Andrews. Also UCL too close and too expensive and DD doesn’t want to stay at home to study. Her college have her on their Oxbridge program and out of the two she favours Cambridge over Oxford for course content.

So far then she has a very loose list which is: Cambridge, Durham, York, Warwick, Lancaster and Exeter.

Are there any other obvious places she should be thinking about?

I really appreciate all the useful tips on what to look for in a uni/course. Certainly gives DD something to work with!

Leeds is a great course - manages to bring in language, which is great for jobs, and contemporary lit which is also good for publishing. As lovely and interesting medieval etc is it’s not massively useful. Leeds English is an old house so quite charming. St Andrews is a magical place - if you go to Edin do check it out. Though very hard to get into.

Leeds has two courses now (it may have always done ?) Lang and Lit and pure Lit. That said the Lit course has lots of opportunities to do creative writing modules and language modules too!

Similarly, the course at York is till called English and Related Literature with its emphasis on exploring texts beyond those in the English language - albeit tis isn't as strong - or compulsory- a feature as it used to be. It's why I chose York for my own degree in fact. Not that I could read Buddenbrooks in German now or translate Anglo Saxon!

Leeds course sounds promising. She is doing her EPQ on Transgressive literature and contemporary literature really interests her. She also loves writing so the creative writing element could be a winner.

Transgressive fiction rather

She sounds fab!

I think if she starts looking through various courses and modules, she will get genuinely fired up.

St Andrews has some really good creative writing modules and is a beautiful place. Edinburgh is also lovely of course but has poor staff:student ratios and a lot of unbalanced predominance of queer theory to the exclusion of other topics. Birmingham and Warwick both have very highly rated academic staff.

St Andrews is tiny and full of Americans. which some will love, but not for everyone ; I think your feel for the environment is almost as important as the course on offer

Just to say from all OP has said, it sounds like her daughter would love approaches like queer theory. As for the pearl clutching about wokeness - plenty at all universities these days, even – gasp – Oxford and Cambridge

@Newgirls Does any employee think what you read on an English degree is “useful”? It’s a means to an end. At least reading Medieval English says something about you. You rose to a challenge! DD did some medieval French. That’s even more of a challenge and it does say something about you. You don’t take the easy options!

Bristol used to be better than Exeter (was my second choice) but my info may be out of date. Oxford over Cambridge any day of the week though, that still stands.

Well they are all better than Bedfordshire! The University of Bedfordshire is 82nd for English in the Complete University Guide. Hardly in the same league as Edinburgh! On any level! @Piggywaspushed

Your list sounds fine OP, you could happily stick with that. "The best" is such a nebulous concept. There are huge varieties of modules on offer at all good unis and there will be some good teachers and some less good - even at Cambridge where I went (though not doing English) some supervisors were DIRE. Many were definitely woke, even then! I'd agree it's more important to choose somewhere where you can imagine yourself living happily for three or four years and just be sure modules you think you'll enjoy are offered. Employers don't give two hoots if someone studied Beowfulf and/or queer theory and who taught them (btw dd who hopes to do English at Edinburgh LOVES queer theory, which she's doing in relation to Othello for A levels).

Obviously. I just found it quite amusing. It must really sting Edinburgh.

Although I do think The Times Guide is regarded as gold standard. This more shows the slippage of Edinburgh.

To be fair to Bedfordshire, it has always been regarded as being decent for English. It's not a terrible choice as a lower tariff university. A lot of mature students and home based students, though.

I think it's a good list.

Since the issue of woke/queer theory academics ruining students' lives has come up ... FWIW, even if someone is a woke queer theorist, if they are teaching at any of these universities, they will also be able to give a solid grounding in other critical theories too. I'm a woke queer theorist, and still perfectly capable of ploughing through the drier bits of medieval Latin grammar and teaching students to read Piers Plowman. They're not mutually exclusive. Indeed, quite often students who had me for their translation and commentary classes were a surprised to find my own research wasn't all grammar and etymology.

@Piggywaspushed
I think Edinburgh, like everyone else, would think it was a joke. Like most of the Guardian’s tables. 21st or 82nd? Most of us know where the truth lies! Bedfordshire is (was) a local college of HE. Like Bucks. They have little in common with Edinburgh!

Those aren't The Guardian tables, tizer....

Where Edinburgh falls down and does need to examine itself is employment prospects, student experience and teaching quality.

I think other topnotch RG+ universities are a better choice for English than Edinburgh.

I sense an agenda Piggy, but you're entitled to your opinion, Edinburgh is 10th in Times University Guide up from 13th last year. Student experience I don't go a bundle on as a metric given Covid and the way this data is garnered. Anecdotally, those I've known who read English at Edin loved it - one is still in close touch with one of the professors there. But since the OP didn't have it on her list it's a total distraction anyway. I'd still say choosing a town/city which suits you is extremely important, more so than daft league tables

Not an agenda at all; I did mention it was based on data, and experiences of students who have gone there. I only mentioned it because a few people popped up and recommended it!

10th overall, yes, not for English where it languishes. That's the table I was using!

When looking at Oxford and Cambridge, it's not just about the university but the college, and this is particularly true for any subject - like English - which is mostly delivered through supervisions rather than lectures.

She needs to look at both the interests of her potential supervisors, and whether this fits with hers, but also their kudos or reputation. Her supervisors don't teach all the parts of the course, but swap with colleagues in other colleges for different papers; a more senior supervisor will get better trades, in short. So due diligence here is really important.

I would recommend Glasgow Uni. I know it's not in your list though.

English students need to go to the best overall university. Employment stats are not brilliant for English. Employers don’t particularly rate it. They simply don’t care that X university is well regarded for feminine literature or similar niche. So what you need is the extra a top 20 university might give you. Unless you are teaching, some aspects of study are seen as “naval gazing”. A degree for your own interests but not theirs. Basically 3 years at an English university is good enough. Just not a low ranked former college of HE.

I agree college choice matters as you'll very likely be supervised mostly in-college where possible, but I don't think 'a more senior supervisor will get better trades'. I think it's more that people get into the habit of certain swaps, sometimes purely because they're mates, or because the colleges do the same papers in the same order, or whatever. Seniority can just mean 'oh dear, the guy at Pembroke is getting the same person to teach the Shakespeare paper for him again, even though he retired ten years ago and hasn't bothered to read anything much since'.

Kudos/reputation wouldn't be a factor, I think. Nobody thinks 'ooh, I'll definitely swap teaching with Rob MacFarlane because he's written another bestseller/won a grant'.

But surely, students want to know if they're being taught by someone who's great at their area of interest, precisely because it'll help them to get a really good degree? It's much harder to excel at something you find dull. It's not that you expect employers to break into animated discussion of Jane Eyre during a job interview; it's that if you love Jane Eyre it might get you that first that scores you an interview.