Page 2 | Admissions advice needed please

senua · 16/03/2023 20:07

He has had a very late identification of literacy processing difficulties after I asked the SENCo to assess him.
What are the school doing, practically, about this. Are they giving him tips and techniques to improve skills? Are they getting him extra time in exams?

Original poster

OnTh3Up · 16/03/2023 20:10

AnguaResurgam · 16/03/2023 20:07

13 GCSEs is too many

As he's doing both maths and FM, then I think it would be wise to cut down to 10 (or at a push 11 as statistics in in there too, so that's a lot of overlap)

I'd definitely be encouraging him to drop at least 2 and probably 3. So I'd get rid of one or both of geography and RE, and probably music as well (as he could just play for fun and/or do ABRSM/Trinity exams which will be on a different timeline

Thank you. He's completed most of his music as a lot of it is coursework- he's got pretty much full marks I think. There's just a 1 hour listening exam so that's fine 👍

OP posts:

Original poster

OnTh3Up · 16/03/2023 20:13

senua · 16/03/2023 20:07

He has had a very late identification of literacy processing difficulties after I asked the SENCo to assess him.
What are the school doing, practically, about this. Are they giving him tips and techniques to improve skills? Are they getting him extra time in exams?

He was assessed the week before the Feb mocks and they gave him extra time. He will have extra time in his GCSEs. He's been having 1 hour a week of English intervention since September which has been helpful.

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NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 16/03/2023 21:01

The school have said dropping Geography could affect future university applications as it reduces the breadth of subjects.

This is nonsense, and the school will know it's nonsense. The reason for their wanting your son to continue with geography is that it counts towards a silly artificial measure called the "English Baccalaureate" that is used as a measure of school performance. If he sticks with geography and does well in it, it will improves the school's performance data. Universities do not take any notice of it.

rambunctiousSlug · 16/03/2023 21:03

Drop RE and Geog. The school are wrong. 11 is plenty. Aim on getting English up to at least a 6.

PinaColadaBaby · 16/03/2023 21:04

Nail on head @NoNotHimTheOtherOne - our DS had the same argument with his school two years ago!

MatildaJayne · 16/03/2023 21:08

The school will have the issue of what to do with him during the timetabled geography and RE lessons. Who will supervise him? If he still attends lessons but doesn’t take the exam, will he become uninterested and a distraction to others?

Universities won’t care if he has a couple of outliers in grades in unrelated subjects, but he will have to declare them on his UCAS form.

WednesdaysPlaits · 17/03/2023 06:51

MatildaJayne · 16/03/2023 21:08

The school will have the issue of what to do with him during the timetabled geography and RE lessons. Who will supervise him? If he still attends lessons but doesn’t take the exam, will he become uninterested and a distraction to others?

Universities won’t care if he has a couple of outliers in grades in unrelated subjects, but he will have to declare them on his UCAS form.

Why does he need supervising. He’s year 11. He either sits and revises in the library or he sits in the back of a classroom revising whilst his classmates do geography or re.

ArdeteiMasazxu · 17/03/2023 07:03

universities absolutely won't care and 14 GCSEs is totally unnecessary.

The school will want him to do a Humanity to qualify for the EBacc but that only matters for the school statistics, no one in real life cares

I would push for him dropping at least one of them. The slim advantage to keeping one would only be if you felt that having one "essay" subject would help support his English Language grade just by giving extra practice - but he could drop both so long as the released time was going to be properly used to spend extra time on all the retained subjects, bot just giving him loads of rest time.

Quitelikeacatslife · 17/03/2023 07:33

Definitely drop re and geography and really needs to sure up his English, if he misses the 4 there he will come into lots of limitations for future applications. He could really do with 5 in eng lang.
if they won't withdraw him just suggest he effectively drops them himself and just goes to lessons but doesn't put any more focus on them, no homework etc and tell school that is what he is doing .
13 is ridiculous, my DS at selective independent school and doing 10

SeasonFinale · 17/03/2023 13:30

So what if it is to get "3"s off his record - he will still have 11 gcses and that is more than most.

EBacc is school measurement only and not a qualification for him so losing geography makes no difference.

A degree course may need a certain level of English (or sometimes maths) but otherwise will depend on A levels or equivalent.

Bin them both off and be firm with the school if they push back.

Gufo · 17/03/2023 13:34

Admissions at the uni I worked at wanted 5 gcses including English and maths for most courses. Drop away!

poetryandwine · 20/03/2023 09:02

Hello, @OnTh3Up

Sorry I am late to this thread. I am writing as a former admissions tutor.

Firstly, I echo PPs who say that this is far too many GCSEs. I share the suspicion that the concern for Geography is to do with the EBacc and not personal to your DS at all. As his aptitudes and interests are geared to STEM, the first step is to lose both Geography and RE if possible - I hope your DS is doing AQA, or that the AQA deadline is representative.

Secondly, I share the concern @PerpetualOptimist has for his English Language grade. Your DS is clearly very intelligent and I hope he will be applying to a range of universities. Mine (upper Russell Group but not super elite) and many others require Grade 5 in English Language for all degree programmes. I would like to see DS put more focus here (although I am sure it isn’t easy for him) than others have indicated in order to maximise his chances of getting the 5. An hour a week, particularly if he isn’t doing much else by way of extra work - and how many of us do spend our free time working on our weaknesses? - is nothing. Would it be possible to arrange extra tuition?

In order to pursue this something else must go. English Lit, obviously. I would also recommend dropping one more thing. Nine GCSEs is plenty. If DS feels that somehow this marks him as a quitter, my response would be: No, you were misled into handicapping yourself. You would not have been on a level playing field with all those exams. Nine exams gives you more approximately the same chances as eveyone else.

BTW, I know you did not ask this, but - writing computer games is potentially a very fine career but is also the choice of more teenagers than adults. This sits side by side with a general theme: it is easier to take a broader STEM degree into a specialist job than to take a specialist degree out of its niche, at least early in one’s career. (I am in STEM.). Given how bright your DS is, I hope he will consider some broadly themed degrees in the field of Computer Science, IT, Software Engineering, Computer Graphics, etc, that will qualify him to write games and also do other things.

(You don’t actually need a degree to write games, but you may need a degree to get hired.) He may enjoy a degree programme that incorporates a year of work experience.

Best wishes

Original poster

OnTh3Up · 20/03/2023 09:46

poetryandwine · 20/03/2023 09:02

Hello, @OnTh3Up

Sorry I am late to this thread. I am writing as a former admissions tutor.

Firstly, I echo PPs who say that this is far too many GCSEs. I share the suspicion that the concern for Geography is to do with the EBacc and not personal to your DS at all. As his aptitudes and interests are geared to STEM, the first step is to lose both Geography and RE if possible - I hope your DS is doing AQA, or that the AQA deadline is representative.

Secondly, I share the concern @PerpetualOptimist has for his English Language grade. Your DS is clearly very intelligent and I hope he will be applying to a range of universities. Mine (upper Russell Group but not super elite) and many others require Grade 5 in English Language for all degree programmes. I would like to see DS put more focus here (although I am sure it isn’t easy for him) than others have indicated in order to maximise his chances of getting the 5. An hour a week, particularly if he isn’t doing much else by way of extra work - and how many of us do spend our free time working on our weaknesses? - is nothing. Would it be possible to arrange extra tuition?

In order to pursue this something else must go. English Lit, obviously. I would also recommend dropping one more thing. Nine GCSEs is plenty. If DS feels that somehow this marks him as a quitter, my response would be: No, you were misled into handicapping yourself. You would not have been on a level playing field with all those exams. Nine exams gives you more approximately the same chances as eveyone else.

BTW, I know you did not ask this, but - writing computer games is potentially a very fine career but is also the choice of more teenagers than adults. This sits side by side with a general theme: it is easier to take a broader STEM degree into a specialist job than to take a specialist degree out of its niche, at least early in one’s career. (I am in STEM.). Given how bright your DS is, I hope he will consider some broadly themed degrees in the field of Computer Science, IT, Software Engineering, Computer Graphics, etc, that will qualify him to write games and also do other things.

(You don’t actually need a degree to write games, but you may need a degree to get hired.) He may enjoy a degree programme that incorporates a year of work experience.

Best wishes

Thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive response- it's really helpful.
I have put my request to the school in writing for the head to consider (as asked by the deputy head in a phone conversation).
I will show your reply to my son- your advice on degree courses makes a lot on sense.

Thank you for recognising my son's strengths and understanding that he might feel like a quitter- I've told him the same but it's easy to lose sight of common sense when each subject teacher is pushing for their own subject (and rightly so).
I have a friend who is an English teacher and she is helping with writing practise. I have bought the CGP workbook for English and I'm going to work through the reading tasks with my son, which will hopefully help.
Thank you.

OP posts:

Juja · 20/03/2023 10:50

The school in my view is being unhelpful and is plain wrong looking only to their own stats. My children both did only 10 GCSEs including 2x English just 2 and 4 years ago. Both received plenty of excellent Uni offers (including Oxford). We stood up to the school (high performing comprehensive) for DC2 who wanted to do neither History, Geography nor RE. She took more languages and three sciences. Uni's do not care about the English Bacc.

In any event Uni algorithms often only look at the top 8-10 GCSEs. 13 sees completely over the top.

I would cut back even further - I can quite see why your DC is over whelmed. I went to pretty much the most academic school in the country and we took 8 subjects and a total of 9 GCSEs (English Lit & Lang).

Original poster

OnTh3Up · 20/03/2023 10:53

Juja · 20/03/2023 10:50

The school in my view is being unhelpful and is plain wrong looking only to their own stats. My children both did only 10 GCSEs including 2x English just 2 and 4 years ago. Both received plenty of excellent Uni offers (including Oxford). We stood up to the school (high performing comprehensive) for DC2 who wanted to do neither History, Geography nor RE. She took more languages and three sciences. Uni's do not care about the English Bacc.

In any event Uni algorithms often only look at the top 8-10 GCSEs. 13 sees completely over the top.

I would cut back even further - I can quite see why your DC is over whelmed. I went to pretty much the most academic school in the country and we took 8 subjects and a total of 9 GCSEs (English Lit & Lang).

Thank you.

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poetryandwine · 20/03/2023 11:36

Pleasure,@OnTh3Up

BTW, if your DS is considering a CS A level, it might be good for him to join the online forum TheStudentRoom to assess the pros and cons of doing so. Most members are undergraduates. He can search existing threads or start one.

By far the most important A level for a CS degree and many of the related degrees is Maths. Many Russell Group CS Schools list FM, Physics and CS amongst recommended A levels. (It is possible that a couple of the most competitive may require FM. A small number do not require Maths). None requires CS, I believe. Obviously don’t take my word.

In no way am I suggesting that only the RG provide a good education. I am currently very enthusiastic about Bath and Lancaster. Loughborough and Leicester amongst others also have much to offer, particularly at the UG level. My university’s PGCE has a big weakness in that the post 1992 university in our city has sewn up all the best placements; ours are dire by comparison. Some of the best vocational programmes in the land are at post 1992 institutions. But I hope your DS will at least consider going for the broader perspective he will get in the RG or at places with a similar ethos.

Teriyakieverything · 20/03/2023 11:42

The school seems to be giving you rubbish advice. I would drop RE, Geography and one other, and use the released time/energy to focus on improving the English grades.

Original poster

OnTh3Up · 23/03/2023 11:26

@PinaColadaBaby
Any advice? School have just written back to say that he can drop RE but not Geography.

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NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 23/03/2023 13:01

Any advice? School have just written back to say that he can drop RE but not Geography.

Have they explained why? I don't see why it's up to them.

poetryandwine · 23/03/2023 13:34

What reason did they give? Is the school state, independent, grammar, academy, etc? What are the exam boards for RE, Geography and Eng Lit? Possibly one more.

Details will help us help your DS because this is just wrong

ThanksForYourHelp · 23/03/2023 14:24

Jesus. Drop geography (and RE) immediately.

Intergalacticcatharsis · 23/03/2023 14:28

It is too many GCSEs - yes, it is recommended they do a social science, but too late now. Drop both! Then work on getting English up.

Original poster

OnTh3Up · 23/03/2023 14:46

It’s a comprehensive academy with an outstanding Ofsted report.

The reasons given are:
◦ The geography teacher says he has achieved a 4 in his mocks (I think this was just one paper and as far as I know he got a 3 in another paper) and he grades him as a 5-. A 4 is a pass and he should take it.
◦ There is still time to up his grade. There are lots of extra revision classes after school and at Easter in Geography.
◦ It would be a shame to waste the last 3 years of work.
◦ He’s dropping RE so now has extra time.
◦ Triple science and double maths are very much offered in addition to a broader range of subjects
◦ Studying a humanity forms part of the EBac which universities like
◦ He’s studying engineering, music and photography which have less exams

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poetryandwine · 23/03/2023 17:22

OP, what would your DS choose to do if the decision were his? And what are the exam boards for Geography and English Lit?