Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

I’m an American AMA about US universities

154 replies

Dilemoth · 04/03/2023 02:27

I know US universities/colleges have become more popular and would like to help if possible.

Context: Have children in high school in the southeast part of the US applying to college soon.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 05/03/2023 16:23

@HamBone
I agree. It’s a huge bill even with some scholarship money. Americans have saved from birth. It’s built in to the American dna! They know what’s coming and save up! In the uk, far less planning and people expect £0 fees/free places. Someone always had to pay though. Previously lesser educated ordinary folk by taxation. The fees here are hardly extortionate.

Americans get big tax breaks for philanthropy. We are not the same in the uk. The rich don’t support most universities as they do in the USA.

findmeonthesunnyside · 05/03/2023 16:27

@HamBone, that is awful! I’m so sorry. Prices have quadrupled since I did my undergraduate degree. It’s insane. Put it on a credit card?!? Bonkers.

HamBone · 05/03/2023 16:29

@TizerorFizz We actually have been saving for years in a tax-free account for college saving…but what we’ve saved STILL isn’t enough. Close friends who did the same still had to turn down a place at Georgetown for their DD, because even with savings and merit scholarships, it wasn’t enough. ☹️

poetryandwine · 05/03/2023 16:33

Okay, @findmeonthesunnyside I get that you never quite said this but I thought it inferred. Absent aid, the Big 10 are simply no bargain for British who must add health insurance and travel to the already high out of state tuition fees.

I agree with everything you’re saying about what the experience can offer, BTW. And of course we already agree about the PG support, which I experienced, although I can tell you that unis are not above massaging the figures to make them appear as generous as possible.

poetryandwine · 05/03/2023 16:34

BTW UCLA will be joining the Big 10 in 2024

findmeonthesunnyside · 05/03/2023 16:45

@poetryandwine Ha, I don’t think anyone would think I’m saying a US education is a bargain! “That being said, it’d be best for Brits to get a cheap and fast 3 year undergraduate degree in the UK and then hop over the pond on a full ride.”

poetryandwine · 05/03/2023 17:03

Yes, that’s your second post. You began by recommending the Big 10 for UG, secondarily for PG, for reasons that escape me

BackToWhereItAllBegan · 05/03/2023 17:17

DS is dual national UK/US citizen and is coming back to Oxbridge for his undergrad. Even with paying full international fees and travel, we're expecting to save close to $150,000 over him attending a 4 year private university here in the US. Crazy money!!!

GulfCoastBeachGirl · 05/03/2023 17:17

Americans definitely have a 'the college fund starts at birth' mentality. If grandparents are fortunate enough to have extra money it often goes into an educational trust. I plan on doing this for my (someday, imaginary) grandkids.

That said, a portion of the crushing student debt you read about is self-inflicted. There are plenty of good schools, state universities, lesser known colleges that won't require a student and their family to take on huge debt. Parents and students need to do some soul searching. Sure, there are some professions where that "name" University will give you a big career boost but plenty of others where a good state university will suffice.

This "the sky's the limit!" and "just put it on you credit card" mindset is what got a lot people into the mess they're now hoping tax payers will bail them out of.

HamBone · 05/03/2023 17:25

@GulfCoastBeachGirl Yes, sadly DD doesn't have generous grandparents, they max out at $30 for Christmas and birthdays, and they're not badly off.😂

We have no intention of overextending ourselves, I was just shocked that this financial aid advisor even mentioned credit cards. Who in their right mind would do that? But it made me wonder whether some people actually do, which is crazy.

GulfCoastBeachGirl · 05/03/2023 17:33

HamBone · 05/03/2023 17:25

@GulfCoastBeachGirl Yes, sadly DD doesn't have generous grandparents, they max out at $30 for Christmas and birthdays, and they're not badly off.😂

We have no intention of overextending ourselves, I was just shocked that this financial aid advisor even mentioned credit cards. Who in their right mind would do that? But it made me wonder whether some people actually do, which is crazy.

I'd like to say that I'm shocked that a school financial advisor would even suggest putting it on a credit card, but sadly I don't think it's uncommon and I'm positive that people actually do it.

Hey, that $30, wisely invested, will cover a trip to Starbucks for your Freshman😂

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 05/03/2023 17:53

Northwestern is Big 10 and offers the same need-based aid to international UG students as it does to US students.

findmeonthesunnyside · 05/03/2023 18:10

@poetryandwine I’m not quite sure what your beef is. As an academic your read poorly. And seem to have an interesting type of ego. Stop inferring and putting words in mouths. Read. Perhaps reread over and over, if needed. Use a highlighter is need be. It’s more than the second time you’ve got my written comments wrong. Get a life.

SunsetStrip · 05/03/2023 19:04

@ZZTopGuitarSolo I'm complaining either, I had a full ride, lol (full scholarship)

SunsetStrip · 05/03/2023 19:05

*not complaining, obviously

poetryandwine · 05/03/2023 19:19

@findmeonthesunnyside I didn't originally have a beef, just a clarification that your original post was misleading to British people: here it is. findmeonthesunnyside · Today 12:36
*As an American (and Brit) who was educated in the US but have worked for a large Uni in the UK (I live in the UK) I’m reading a lot of false info and/or prejudices being shared here.

Big 10 schools are an amazing place to start. The real America. Big schools with super research programmes, which are affordable in comparison to the big east coast or west coast names.*

I was pointing out that as much as I agree the Big 10 have much to offer, they are no bargain for Brits, as you later said. At first I thought you must have secret knowledge about financial aid for Overseas at the Big 10, because why else would anyone be posting about unis otherwise out of reach for most British, unless the poster is tone deaf?

You've never addressed this point. I don't really care why or why not.

TizerorFizz · 05/03/2023 19:56

@HamBone
We decided DD would have to stay here so gave up her USA place. We had quite a lot of money to spend but value for money tipped it towards the uk.

TizerorFizz · 05/03/2023 20:15

@poetryandwine
Going back a few pages it would be a very optimistic parent to bet on $29,000 being £20,000 over 4 years if budgeting from current income. Currently it’s £24,096. It would be wonderful to see it at £20,000 again.

poetryandwine · 05/03/2023 20:34

@TizerorFizz Given our present state I agree with you sadly. I originally arrived at $29,000 owed pa in the context of a (fictional) family income of $175,000 pa, at Harvard. This point may be getting obscured.

DH was reviewing exchange rates recently. It isn’t all that long since the pound spiked at around $1.85. Hard to believe, isn’t it?

mathanxiety · 05/03/2023 21:19

WhartyFif · 05/03/2023 08:44

if a U.S university applicant (from uk) has SEN, and/or disability do US universities support them well? Are there accommodations made at entrance or in terms of available student financial aid?

It doesn't affect financial aid or your admission prospects.

Finaid is based on family income.

You could include something about your SEN in your personal statement, either directly or obliquely, in hopes that someone in the admissions office would find you more interesting, resilient, etc, than other applicants. But it won't be the deciding factor in your application.

The Americans With Disabilities Act will, however, directly affect your ability to succeed in university. Universities have disability offices and have protocols in place to support students with SEN, psychiatric diagnoses, or any other issue that might affect performance or ability to access coursework. A student diagnosed with anxiety or PTSD might be allowed extra time or a private room to take exams in. A student with some sort of verbal processing disorder might be able to record lectures - this is common anyway in STEM fields. Certain students can qualify for auxiliary aides. University disabilities offices can liaise with university departments and individual professors to ensure that everyone involved in a student's education is on the same page when it comes to needs, accommodations, etc.

lljkk · 05/03/2023 21:32

NPR podcast about Supreme Court likely to not let Biden provide $20k student debt relief.

HamBone · 05/03/2023 22:13

lljkk · 05/03/2023 21:32

NPR podcast about Supreme Court likely to not let Biden provide $20k student debt relief.

Would the debt relief really improve the situation longterm though? Tuition rates need to decrease to realistic level so that students/their parents don’t need to take on the enormous debt in the first place. That requires a structural overhaul of the college funding system….and II doubt President Biden
(or anyone else running for office in 2024) wants to take that on.

$20K debt relief is a drop in the ocean.

mathanxiety · 05/03/2023 22:46

That’s not what I said at all. My comment related to the academic rigour of American high schools, not the intelligence of a population.

The broadly accepted position seems to be that a US degree take 4 years compared to the equivalent taking 3 years in the UK, and that’s because they finish high school roughly a year behind their UK counterparts. Similarly, a masters degree takes 6 years in the US and 4 years in the UK but the qualification at the end of that period is equivalent.

To get to the same standard as a UK student after studying A Levels, and American student has to chose a lot of extras at high school because the basic level of education is lower.

@CowboyHat
It is what you implied at the very least, but heyho...

You're wrong on a number of scores here.

The 'broadly accepted position' you assert isn't broadly accepted, because it's based on a several misapprehensions, notably your insistence that 'American high schools' provide a poor quality high school education, which leaves American students ill equipped for university.

It's clear that you don't understand the content or the purpose of General Education or Core coursework required in American universities. American universities aim to tun out graduates who have mastered both their degree concentration AND are equipped with a broad education, at university level, in areas that are considered vital to civic life and which will also make the average graduate a versatile employee, a leader, a citizen capable of independent thought and analysis.

From the University of Chicago introduction to its Core Curriculum:
college.uchicago.edu/academics/core-curriculum
Stemming from UChicago’s commitment to relentless learning through determined questioning, challenging of assumptions, and intellectual debate, the Core teaches undergraduates how to think and approach problems from multiple disciplinary perspectives.

The cornerstone of the College’s transformative curriculum, the Core prepares students to explore and debate complex ideas with faculty and peers. Through sequences in the Humanities, Social Sciences, Physical Sciences and Biological Sciences, as well as a sequence in the historical development of a Civilization, our students engage with the language, questions and methods that characterize broad fields of inquiry.

Our goal is to engage students with the range of insights, habits of mind, and academic experiences that can enrich their own reflections and activities in the world—while here and after they graduate. The result is students’ ability to cultivate their own, unique minds and voices.

There is a durable philosophy in the American educational ideal that academic subjects cross-pollinate, that no single subject is an island or a bubble unto itself. Can you really expect to study - for example - history in any depth these days with no knowledge of statistics or statistical methods? No knowledge of economics or a language other than English? Can you as a citizen dealing with the reality of the world forty years after your graduation expect to be able to make sense of your ever changing world if you haven't studied science or mathematics or science or the development of a civilisation, at university level?

This requires a broad education and mastery of a good many disciplines - mathematics, science, literature, MFL, philosophy, history, sociology, psychology, economics, qualitative and quantitative methods of inquiry and analysis, and more. The idea that early specialisation is a desirable thing is a peculiarly English one, and the English system in very much an outlier internationally in this respect.

It's also clear you don't understand much of American high schools. American high schools cater for a huge number of students, across a huge range of environments, with a wide range of abilities and aspirations. Many high schools have thousands of students enrolled. They aim to provide an appropriate education for every enrolled student.

There is no such thing as a 'basic level of education' in 'American high schools'. It is a mistake to misinterpret the graduation requirements of most high schools in most states as the level of education most students receive. The basic requirements are the starting point. Most students far exceed the level of required classes.

You may not be aware that the top universities in the US accept applications from thousands of graduates of American high schools every year. Did you think the top universities are all for foreign students?

And fwiw, a masters isn't going to take you six years in the US. It's not a one size fits all proposition.

Here are the academic catalogues of a few high schools in the greater Chicago metro area. They should show you the scale and scope of a suburban high school education.

www.newtrier.k12.il.us/cms/lib/IL50000651/Centricity/shared/new%20trier%20publications/school%20publications/2022-2023%20Program%20of%20Studies.pdf

campussuite-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/prod/1558748/bd01c7ae-765f-11e9-9402-0a56f8be964e/2516674/0dc79d4e-6f4a-11ed-9912-0a37d2328187/file/Academic%20Catalog%20(with%20revisions)%202023-24%20copy%201.pdf

resources.finalsite.net/images/v1634220649/d125org/ccucnqptpozctfilqgqx/2022-2023InteractiveCoursebook.pdf

mathanxiety · 05/03/2023 23:04

I do wonder about the relative likelihood of success for UK universities of attracting massive alumni donations from domestic or international students who have studied in the UK?

To think about the prospects of that we’re getting into taxation and national economy questions around multiples of countries and the alums’ attitudes to personal charitable giving vs UK government responsibility that seem very hard to predict. Prospects don’t look very reliable to say the least.

@WhartyFif - yes, there are two very different cultures at play here and they're reflected most sharply in the area of money.

In the US, the tax structure facilitates donations to universities or charities. In the UK the government won't grasp the nettle and raise taxes to fund the public goods that depend on tax revenue, hence the sad decline of public services that used to be the envy of the world, and also the scramble on the part of universities to start raising and creating funds, all against the backdrop of a culture that isn't in general philanthropic and a tax system that doesn't at least take away some of the pain of individuals who might like to give their money away.

mathanxiety · 05/03/2023 23:32

now I understand why there is such a pressure on universities in the UK to be recruiting (maximum fee paying) international students.

International students' cheques are not going to fix the problem.