Are the most popular degrees the most competitive?

[Theatreland]

DS’s school has been getting year 12 to start UCAS exploration. They put up a list of the most popular degrees - one of which was Business Management (the degree DS wants to do). They then said these popular degrees were the most competitive and students should think carefully. Is the school right though - is there a correlation? DS now doubting his likely degree choice.

There are hundreds, possibly thousands of BM courses on offer. The level of competition depends on which universities you apply to to study it. Russell Group and a few others will be harder to get offers from and will ask higher grades - though in my experience it's not too difficult to get offers for most students. Look around and choose carefully and your DC should be fine.

Not necessarily. The most popular degrees at the most desirable Uni's are the most competitive. It's the combination of course & Uni

It really depends where you are applying. Economics & Management at Oxford or Management at LSE or Business Studies at Bath would be in a different league for both popularity and competiveness to (say) Business Studies at Solent or Manchester Met. That isn't being disrespectful to any of the courses, but based on entry requirements and prestige.

That list of the most popular would be very interesting to see - do you have a copy?

Not necessarily and good advice above.

Some of the most oversubscribed are so because the number of unis offering is limited (eg vet) which is not the case with courses like business or history, for example.

Yes Management and business course are competitive! But that generally means offers are for higher grades than for other subjects at the same uni, not that offers are fewer.

Sure, this was the list my DS brought home. Top 10 - no source attributed.

1. Business
2. Law
3. Psychology
4. Engineering and Technology
5. Medicine
6. Sports Science
7. Computer Science
8. Media and Communication
9. Design
10. Education

I'm surprised Veterinary Science isn't on there.

Dd is in her first year and I know so many that are doing psychology so that one really doesn't surprise me. Neither does law or business. Education does.

Vet sci only competitive because there are less than 10 providers. This is the UCAS data which can be split by subject, though difficult on a phone:

https://www.ucas.com/data-and-analysis/undergraduate-statistics-and-reports/ucas-undergraduate-releases/ucas-undergraduate-applicant-releases-2023-cycle/2023-cycle-applicant-figures-25-january-deadline

Psychology and Criminology are current big favourites in our place at the moment, as is Physics and Astrophysics. Cyber Security is trending this year. Politics and related subjects have been popular since 2016 Brexit and Trump. Events Management has dropped off the chart since its greatest popularity about 10 years ago. Medicine and Law are always in the top 10, and Business Management.

Assuming your DS has not inadvertently oversimplified his school's advice, then the suggestion that popular courses are automatically competitive is not correct. It is more nuanced than that, as PP indicate.

Furthermore, that is not the real issue. There is no point switching to a 'less popular' course if there is no interest in or aptitude for that. Your DS needs to examination why Business Management interests him, whether he is likely to be engaged and do well and whether such a degree will lead to career pathways that appeal. The popular/competitive angle is a bit of a red herring.

I didn't apply for law because my school said it was really difficult to get in. But my friend did and she was no better or worse than me. I would have made a great lawyer and always regret that decision.

So. please tell your son it doesn't matter: if he makes the target grades and he can demonstrate an interest in business through his reading, activities and work experience, he is good enough and has just as much chance of getting a place as anyone else. And if he doesn't get the offers, he can have a gap year and apply next year.

thank you all for yr insight. Please keep it coming. I prob should not blame school but, thanks to online talk today (over Teams due to teacher strike), DS is now thinking he should apply for history rather than Biz/Mgement as history is less competitive and requires lower grades. Saddened by this as he is great at history but does not enjoy. Biz has been his choice for many months.

sorry to be cynical but I truly believe (on an evidential basis) that the primary motivator for his particular school is getting students into RG unis (as that is a Gov benchmarked school assessment criterion). Do school care about steering students towards degrees they will relish? No. Do they actively dissuade students from non-RG coz they won’t be counted - er yes. My BF’s daughter was at top London state school comp and they counselled against Bath for business - even though it is top - coz it wouldn’t count in their DfE stats as not RG.

I have also seen my DC (at a comp) exposed to this kind of reductionist thinking. I'm not quite as cynical and think it comes from a general desire to encourage students to be aspirational in terms of uni and course choices because, on average, this will typically lead to a good outcome.

However, students (like parents and teachers!) are all different. The focus on the RG label becomes particularly unstuck when considering more vocational degrees; and all the more so in relation to Business Management where non-RG unis like Strathclyde, Lancaster, Loughborough and U of Bath are strong performers and are recognised by employers as being so.

The lack of nuanced understanding is also evident in relation to apprenticeships and my DC had to resist quite prejudiced, and at times laughably simplistic, views from sixth form tutors and others about those. My tactic was simply to encourage them to assess the actual evidence for themselves, so that it remained very much their decision, but based on an evaluation tailored to their own aspirations and strengths.

Your DS might find it interesting to look at research compiled each year by Prospects (an excellent website in all sorts of ways), which examines employability and grad job destinations by degree subject:
luminate.prospects.ac.uk/what-do-graduates-do

@Theatreland can I suggest that you have a read of this thread about RG universities.

Please ignore the snootier replies because they aren't representative of the real world.

from titchy's link numbers by subject group.

UCAS also publish application numbers by uni tariff type (low - medium - high) but don't seem to provide a file showing both tariff and subject group.

I think you're right to be very cynical OP. Your son should pursue his dream. I have a career which everyone in my provincial town said was impossible to get into, it wasn't and is populated by talented people from all sorts of backgrounds, what they have in common was not being out off by low aspirations

At my DS's school (Grammar, mixed 6th form-180 pupils) the most popular choices were:

1. Economics (28 students)
2. Medicine/Dentistry (24 students)
3. Computer Science (13 students)
4. Engineering (13 students)
5. Law (9 students)

Interestingly 17 chose a Gap Year.

The top destinations were:

1. Cambridge (21 students)
2. Nottingham (18 students)
3. Warwick (14 students)
4. LSE (10 students)
5. Imperial (10 students)
6. UCL (10 students)

It’ll depend on spaces. So a friend of mine is a business lecturer and has over 300 nearly 400 students per year in her cohort. So yes, her course is very popular but also has a lot of spaces.

I’m a lecturer on a course with 20 spaces a year. My course probably doesn’t get as many applications as my friends business course but it’s probably more competitive.

I work at a Russell group and we’ve had well in excess of 4000 applications for a few hundred Business Management places. Due to competition we’re only considering pretty much all 9s at GCSE and 3 A stars predicted or achieved, even at this level (or equivalent),we have far more applicants than places. So I do think your school is giving reasonable advice, unless your dc is at this level.

I’d also add Economics & PPE to the list.

Wow @25rainydays those are quite some figures! Thank you for sharing

@SoCrossAboutThis you are right of course. Is there any way of finding out how many places are available on a particular course at a particular university?

@25rainydays Does the admissions criteria for the course state any GCSE grade requirements?

@bguthb90 there are some mandatory GSCE & A level requirements for the Business courses.
Our highly competitive programmes also take GCSE grades into account when determining how competitive an applicant is. Obviously A
Level predictions vary between schools, so achieved GCSEs help to rank applicants on heavily oversubscribed programmes.

@Theatreland if you really want to you should be able to send a freedom of information request to ascertain number of places and how many applicants etc. This should be on the Universities website. You can also send an email and ask, it shouldn’t be a secret.
It could be different next year, as most applicants should have sat the GCSE exams whereas for the past 2 years, the grades were teacher assessed & so many applicants have at least 8 9s.