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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Are the most popular degrees the most competitive?

37 replies

Theatreland · 02/03/2023 19:19

DS’s school has been getting year 12 to start UCAS exploration. They put up a list of the most popular degrees - one of which was Business Management (the degree DS wants to do). They then said these popular degrees were the most competitive and students should think carefully. Is the school right though - is there a correlation? DS now doubting his likely degree choice.

OP posts:
Phphion · 03/03/2023 21:26

It is very difficult to judge competitiveness as it is comprised of both quantity and quality of applicants.

Looking just at quantity of applicants, using only the UCAS data for 2021 (the last year all the necessary data is available) you can compare the number of applications to the number of acceptances and then use number of acceptances as a very rough proxy (for the Russell Group and similar since they largely won't have a lot of places for these subjects that they don't fill) for the number of places available and develop a measure of 'quantity competitiveness'. There's better data from HESA on actual number of places to use for this if you really wanted to calculate properly rather than using proxy data.

Really if you are just focussed on getting an offer what you actually need to know is the offer rate rather than the number of applicants. Some courses have to make offers to a very high proportion of their applicants in order to fill their places because only a small proportion of those they make an offer to will actually choose to go there. There will be courses that have 1000 applicants and make 200 offers to fill 100 places and others that have 1000 applicants and will make 700 offers to fill 100 places.

The easily available UCAS data is for subject groupings. There are weak and strong subjects within each grouping. You also have no information on the relative strengths of the applicant cohort for each course - a university that asks for higher grades might not get as many applicants as the applicant pool is self-selecting and only those with the very highest grades will apply. However, competition between these applicants will be fierce. This is why Oxford, for example, does not appear to be exceptionally quantity competitive for HPRS - it has a very self-selecting applicant pool and within the HPRS grouping it has courses that are quite niche and which have fewer applicants per place but all those applicants are likely to be very good.

It is interesting looking at the historical data back to 2017 to see that the number of places on B&M courses keeps going up and up, but the number of places on the collective HPRS courses has actually declined at some RG universities. Only 4 universities (Edinburgh, Oxford, UCL and York) have more proxy places available on HPRS courses than they do on B&M courses).

Nonetheless, using the available UCAS applications and acceptances data, broadly what the data tells you is:

  • There is no RG university that has fewer applications per (proxy) place for Business and Management than for Historical, Philosophical and Religious Studies.
  • Surprisingly, for the high ranked but non-RG universities, both Lancaster and Loughborough have more applications per (proxy) place for the collective HPRS subjects than they do for B&M.
BUT
  • For 8 of the RG universities - Birmingham, Durham, Exeter, Glasgow, Liverpool, LSE, QUB and York - it's close enough that once we factor in weak and strong subjects within the collective subject groupings the difference in 'quantity competitiveness' between B&M and HPRS is pretty meaningless.
  • For a further 10 there is a bit of a difference.
  • For 4 - King's, Oxford, Sheffield and UCL there is a fairly large difference in applicants per (proxy) place for B&M and the collective HPRS subjects (Cambridge and Imperial are excluded because they do not have any courses designated as being in one or other of B&M or HPRS. Oxford only has a tiny number in B&M).
If you look at the ranking data in the list below (rather than the actual numbers, for ease of viewing. I can post the table with the actual numbers if you want) on the different measures, you can see, for example, that QML (6660 applicants, 1065 acceptances/proxy places) and Exeter (5365 applicants, 1170 acceptances/proxy places, giving them the smallest number of applicants per place) had a relatively high number of applicants for B&M but also a lot of places so the sheer number of applicants doesn't actually mean there were a high number of applicants per place (relative to the other RG universities). UCL on the other hand did not have as many applicants for B&M but it was very competitive to get a place as there were also not many places available (3635 applicants, 230 acceptances/proxy places, giving them the 2nd largest number of applicants per proxy place behind Oxford which only had 45 acceptances/proxy places for 865 applicants).

2021 University | B&M rank by applicant numbers (rank by quantity competitiveness most to least) | HPRS rank by applicant numbers (rank by quantity competitiveness most to least) | Rank by difference in quantity competitiveness between B&M and HPRS smallest to largest
Manchester | 1 (5) | 2 (4) | 17
Leeds | 2 (9) | 8 (6) | 12
King's | 3 (4) | 3 (5) | 20
QML | 4 (18) | 22 (21) | 15
Birmingham | 5 (11) | 14 (3) | 5
Warwick | 6 (10) | 15 (12) | 16
Edinburgh | 7 (7) | 1 (9) | 18
Bristol | 8 (8) | 7 (2) | 11
Exeter | 9 (22) | 6 (20) | 3
Nottingham | 10 (12) | 10 (14) | 13
LSE | 11 (3) | 12 (1) | 4
Sheffield | 12 (6) | 17 (10) | 19
Liverpool | 13 (14) | 18 (15) | 6
Durham | 14 (15) | 9 (17) | 8
Cardiff | 15 (16) | 16 (18) | 9
Southampton | 16 (13) | 19 (16) | 10
Newcastle | 17 (19) | 20 (22) | 14
UCL | 18 (2) | 5 (11) | 21
Glasgow | 19 (20) | 13 (7) | 2
York | 20 (17) | 11 (19) | 7
QUB | 21 (21) | 21 (13) | 1 (smallest difference between courses)
Oxford | 22 (1) | 4 (8) | 22 (largest difference between courses)

BUT, actually it's all pretty meaningless. Getting accepted into university is not a destination in itself. You shouldn't disregard your future aspirations, for your university experience and for your career, just to achieve some temporary accolade. Your life does not end at the point at which you are accepted onto a university course.

bguthb90 · 03/03/2023 21:43

@Phphion - many thanks for that very detailed post.

As a parent whose DS has applied to a B&M subject (Accounting and Finance) I found it very insightful

Xenia · 03/03/2023 22:21

Look at where newly hired graduates went and what subjects they did at jobs you might want to do by doing linkedin searches with the names of employers you might want and work backwards from that.

Eg some lawyers don't do law to start with but a subject less competitive to take at university but at a very good university if they might not get in there to do an LLB as 50% of lawyers don't do law as their first degree. Other people might pick a not very popular subject at Oxbridge as less competition for places. However you need to pick something you will like too - I really enjoyed my LLB.

SeasonFinale · 04/03/2023 18:16

Theatreland · 02/03/2023 19:45

Sure, this was the list my DS brought home. Top 10 - no source attributed.

  1. Business
  2. Law
  3. Psychology
  4. Engineering and Technology
  5. Medicine
  6. Sports Science
  7. Computer Science
  8. Media and Communication
  9. Design
  10. Education

No source attributed says it all. Is it what is popular for the pupils at your school only.

Economics is very competitive. Business Management less so. Have they lumped them together.

Medicine is more competitive in terms of places available as is compter science.

Theatreland · 05/03/2023 02:13

@Phphion without doubt, yours is the most detailed and helpful post I have ever received (or seen) on this site. It will take me a few days to process it and give it the due respect it deserves. So grateful

OP posts:
fUNNYfACE36 · 05/03/2023 02:19

Aslockton · 03/03/2023 18:00

At my DS's school (Grammar, mixed 6th form-180 pupils) the most popular choices were:

  1. Economics (28 students)
  2. Medicine/Dentistry (24 students)
  3. Computer Science (13 students)
  4. Engineering (13 students)
  5. Law (9 students)
Interestingly 17 chose a Gap Year.

The top destinations were:

  1. Cambridge (21 students)
  2. Nottingham (18 students)
  3. Warwick (14 students)
  4. LSE (10 students)
  5. Imperial (10 students)
  6. UCL (10 students)

I guess you are in the south though.At my DCs grammar school Durham Edinburgh and St Andrew's are certainly popular

RotundBeagle · 05/03/2023 02:33

Surprised sports science is in top 10. That said, I imagine it's a veryucrstivd subject if you can get published in fitness/bodybuilding mags etc.

bguthb90 · 05/03/2023 09:25

RotundBeagle · 05/03/2023 02:33

Surprised sports science is in top 10. That said, I imagine it's a veryucrstivd subject if you can get published in fitness/bodybuilding mags etc.

Late night @RotundBeagle ? 😂

titchy · 05/03/2023 10:58

RotundBeagle · 05/03/2023 02:33

Surprised sports science is in top 10. That said, I imagine it's a veryucrstivd subject if you can get published in fitness/bodybuilding mags etc.

It isn't top ten though. OP's list is presumably the top ten of her dc's school, it isn't nationally.

titchy · 05/03/2023 10:59

I'm not sure getting published in fitness magazines is exactly lucrative either, nor seen as the pinnacle of a career!

Aslockton · 05/03/2023 15:52

fUNNYfACE36 · 05/03/2023 02:19

I guess you are in the south though.At my DCs grammar school Durham Edinburgh and St Andrew's are certainly popular

Yes, in the south. Only one student in each of the last 3 years went to a Scottish University (Edinburgh x 2 and Herriot-Watt x 1). 4 went to Durham in 2022, and 8 in 2021.

Interestingly, only 8 went to a non-Russell gp uni in 2021, but 27 went to a non RG in 2022. It is always fascinating to read what courses the Y13 have gone onto read... MSc in Distilling and Brewing at HW. What a great choice!

TizerorFizz · 05/03/2023 16:02

Complete university guide has a different take on “popular”. Their data is “Ucas most applied for in 2020”. Sit tight!!!!

  1. Nursing
  2. Psychology
  3. law
  4. Computer science
  5. Design studies
  6. pre clinical medicine
  7. Sports snd Exercise science
  8. Subjects allied to medicine
  9. Combinations with Business and Administration
  10. Management studies.
Some quite odd combinations I thought! 9 and 10 have overlaps and 6, 8 and 1 too! No room for engineering or any traditional science or subjects related to geography. I bet this list would look very different 30 years ago.

When considering business at university, don't forget many firms are also looking for top class grads who have studied traditional subjects such as MFL, history or English. They will put them on training programmes. So there’s lots of competition for jobs. The highest earning degrees look different to the most popular degrees!

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