Sheffield Hallam or Aberyswyth for MFL with business?

[ComeonArsenal]

We haven't visited either uni and they both want BBC so would be DC's insurance. Which one to pick? Is one more prestigious than the other?

I don't think from what you have said in the past Aber wold have been on her radar for a host of additional other reasons tizer.

I think this OP's child is not necessarily a top grade student, reading between the lines either.

My point is , it's a decent , long established university with an excellent reputation for lots of things, including but not limited to, student satisfaction. I hope you would concede it has a better academic reputation than SHU. But Aber is , for some, a non starter because of location. Sheffield is a better location for many but I have heard a lot of negative things about SHU recently.

You were the only one who did so.

That's not true. I have done this repeatedly, and so have others. But neither university is truly prestigious (Aber despite what some say is definitely more highly regarded) so other factors come into play.

The drop out rate from university remains stubbornly high, mind. Studies show that a lot of this has to do with support from universities but also loneliness, isolation and other factors. You can go anywhere and be miserable so looking at a location and what it could offer you and what support networks you might find does matter. Some places are overwhelming for some students; some are underwhelming. It's part of a package. Three or four years is a long time when you are young.

Like others, I disagree with you anyway. MN is obsessed with its pretty narrow definition of suitable universities.

But if we want to get into standards, Aberystwyth is higher in league tables overall (I looked at all the main ones) and for languages than SHU. I didn't look at Business as someone else did that upthread.

Yes, as others have said, the course and reputation are important but it's not as if you're comparing Oxford with somewhere at the bottom of the table here; they're probably pretty comparable.

So you need to look at something else to help you decide between them:

I don't know the specifics of accommodation, location within the town etc but I do know that Aberystwyth is a very extreme case amongst British universities, just extreme as eg UCL is at the other end of the spectrum.

Aber is a lovely town; I think it would be a great place to spend three years - but I'm 48, not 18. There is nothing even remotely nearby - eg it wouldn't be possible to travel to B'ham (nearest major city) for a big night out; you'd have to stay over.

Another aspect is that most British students will live a bare minimum of 4 hours away, very likely considerably more. Don't underestimate how cut off from the rest of the country it is.

It's a relatively small cohort so if you don't manage to find your tribe then you're a bit stuck.

I think if you love it, you really love it (hence high student satisfaction scores) but there is higher than average potential for it to go wrong.

I loved my time at Aber. It's smallness was a bonus in my opinion as getting round the pubs was easy 😁 also loved my course and the whole atmosphere of the place. Honestly, think you need to go visit both and see what your perspective student thinks of them both.

Ex-aberite here and there wasn’t this nonsense about league tables back then (I’m very old). It has an excellent reputation for Interpol, its compsci department feeds into the defence industry, there are US exchanges and a new vet sci course - it’s hardly the worst poly in the world masquerading as Oxford!

I think it’s probably quite a “new thing” that parents want to be visiting all the time. We were very independent there - albeit within the confines of a small and safe town.

plus, horrifying true story - nobody wants to be in K2/porky’s when their dad and his mates roll up. 😭

The train at the start and end of term was a real experience - much like the Harry Potter train with students and luggage piled high.

@TheCatch DD looked at campus and city universities and was adamant after visiting Warwick, York and Lancaster that she did definitely not want to go to a campus university.

She ended up at Newcastle which isn't as highly ranked as the aforementioned universities, but was so happy there that after achieving a first class degree she walked straight into a job and is living and working there.

I think location and university type is important, especially when course content is pretty much the same for the subject, otherwise what other deciding factors would influence the student?

The relative status and attractiveness of a university is reflected by the grades it wants. Aber might be old and doesn’t punch above it’s age as a desirable place to go. It’s not punching much above firmer polys who have decent links with business. This degree is business and MFL after all! Being quiet and distant is not helping it.

Lots of students really don’t want to pub crawl these days. It’s what their dads did! Many students look for greater variety in their university city. Or they want easy access to more variety than a remote town has. Being happy does matter. There is more to university than study, especially for a business degree.

Yes, DD could look at better universities. No one she knows looked at Aber. A family member had it as insurance snd when that was required, backed out. It doesn’t matter about parents visiting but Dc getting home occasionally might.

Sheffield is partly in the Peak District. It’s often referred to as England’s biggest village. It retains the highest number of graduates and has some of the richest areas outside London. So I guess they stay and find graduate jobs.

It’s safe and clean and has a high number of Green councillors which reflect it’s young population. It was the most popular city to relocate to during lockdown.

It’s small enough to be friendly and is in God’s own county . The night life is vibrant, nd there are hoardes of students. Hallam is located in the city centre or parts of it are in the trendiest area in the city.

What’s not to like? One of its suburbs was in the top ten places to live.

OP - clearly this thread has taken on a life of its own!

I think you need to cut through whether SHU or Aber has a better reputation generally or whether its prestigious generally, you need to look at the actual course.

Its not just MFL, its MFL and Business.

I can only comment that SHU (or Sheffield Poly) as it was back in the 90s was sought after for its Business Studies / International Business (with MFL) because as above, the option for a year in industry, plus a semester at a European uni wasn't offered anywhere else (other than Aston IIRC). Lots of unis offered a year out / 3rd yr as a teaching assistant abroad, or a placement, or a year at uni abroad, but SHU's course in offering the placement + uni abroad was fairly unique.

I appreciate that we're 30 years on now, and there will be lots of other unis offering MFL + Business, plus placement + european uni. I think however that simply for MFL + Business, SHU is still quite well regarded vis-a-vis other unis, given the experience / longstanding offering its had for this particular course.

The info about the differences between the 2 cities is also relevant - its a question of which you think would suit your DC. Good luck making a decision.

OP, the tread looks like it's got a bit off track, but the original point I made holds.
Sheffield Hallam and Aber are very different places. Your DC needs to look at them and work out where they could be happy. If your happy you'll get more out of the experience.
There is no bad choice here, just different ones. Good luck to your DC.

Thank you all for your feedback - it's been very helpful. Aber sounds lovely but, on digging deeper into the course, DC has decided against as it is 50/50 languages and business (would prefer business as a minor). So SHU it is (2/3 languages; 1/3 business). FWIW, DC's language teachers at school all say SHU has a fantastic rep for languages and it is rated 5th in the country (above Durham etc!) for languages in The Guardian Guide.

"am pretty sure about 10 to 15 years ago it was regarded as decent for languages."

Decent, maybe, but I'd surprised if it was good 15 years ago having been only average 25 years ago and presumably again now.
It helps that the uni is well regarded for other subjects though.

"as if the university itself is just a side distraction and the town is the main topic."

When I did MFL at Aber I only had 12 hours of lectures, so yes, other parts of life dominated.

@ComeonArsenal
In dreams only (and the bizarrre Guardian ratings) is Sheffield Hallam above Durham for MFL! Just look at the grades and you can see what’s regarded as better. By just about everyone. Sorry - but it’s true.

In the complete university guide, Durham is 5th for French and 6th for Iberian languages. Sheffield Hallam is 37 and 35 respectively. So not comparable at all. If DS can get to Durham, go to Durham! Every time.

I think the OP's DC was also looking at Newcastle? They are rated 7th in the CUG for French. The language department is well run according to DD's friends who are taking languages.

@RampantIvy
Newcastle is obviously way above the others. I don’t see why he needs to go mid table for insurance.

As a Uni overalll Newcastle isn’t that highly rated by any of the league tables. 34th in ST, 36th in CUG, and a Graun outlier at 64th.

Sheffield Hallam 82nd, 66th 79th,

Aber 41st, 53rd, 41st

all out of around 130, the mid-point of which is 65th.

French as other pps have said Newcastle 7th in CUG, and also 7th for the Grad Prospects component. Hallam 37th and 23rd.

German a slightly different picture, again from CUG, Newcastle 36th, Hallam 66th. Grad prospects both unis joint 16th.

Business Newcastle 36th again, Hallam 66th. Grad prospects 15th and 34th. Aber higher than both at 11th.

Back to OP’s original question though given course mix preference between MFL and Business Aber looks to be ruled out on perfectly good grounds. Presumably Sheffield Hallam is the answer.

How important is the ranking for most degrees though? What are universities really evaluated on?
I know it matters for law or if you want to work in a city firm, but most students don't want to do this.

I appreciate that Newcastle isn't top ten, but neither is it 130th in the league table.

And I don't take any notice of the Guardian "league tables" .

@RampantIvy well about a million years ago when I was temping (aber uni summer hols) I did secretarial work for a man who would ONLY employ oxbridge firsts - his colleagues told me his team were largely “unusual”.

Tbh I can’t see it matters a fig for 99% of the population. A first from a “shit uni” like aber is still a first. 😂

at our next aber reunion (Nevada this time) - I’ll let all my millionaire friends know the grauniad thinks they’re shit.

anyway - just wondering - does the student get any say/choice in all of this?

Aber isn't a shit uni, @DressingForRevenge .

I'd look at the subject of the degree before the grade, and them at the uni.

You really have to drill down into university league tables to get anything useful out of them. For example, what does 'entry standards' tell you? It gives you a rough guide to the typical A level grades achieved by 18-year-olds who attend that university, and that information has some value. However, it tells you very very little about the quality of the course, the quality of the teaching, or how well it equips its students for the workplace 3 (or 4) years later. The highest-achieving 18-year-olds are not necessarily the highest-achieving 21 or 22-year-olds.

Re. Hallam its rating for MFL is considerably higher than its overall placing – that's an interesting hint that it is a good department with a sound reputation.

Yes but SH isn’t as good as Newcastle for lots of reasons. Sheffield university, yes.
@DressingForRevenge Firsts are not all considered equal by employers. They do know the difference between Durham and Northumbria!

Sheffield, clean and safe in the same sentence baffles me! And I’ve lived here all my life.