DC is Y12- When / how to start the process!!!

[Starrburst]

Our eldest DC is in first year of A levels and interested in computer science/ maths at uni

They'll take the MAT tests in autumn I believe

When how where do we start the process??

How much help do schools give looking at course options and the application process??

All advice / links welcome! Help!!!!

All schools vary. If your son is engaged now and interested to look then go for it. Equally if he’s not yet interested then this summer is fine. Open days are in autumn and spring so if you leave til after the summer you may limit the number you can visit if open days clash.

He can start his personal statement over the summer/early autumn and that helps focus the mind.

This is the year for making a tentative decision between CS and Maths. Two great options! DS should start ASAP to attend uni Open Days.

You mentioned the MAT, so it sounds like he is a strong student. His school should be giving him guidance as to how realistic a candidate he is for the top degree programmes. And he needs to know that there is always a significant amount of randomness in admissions decisions - I am writing as a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor - so he needs to prepare some attractive back up options as well.

It will be an exciting, busy year.

DS was looking at a different course at that age but received virtually no help from the school apart from setting up his UCAS account. The best place we found for advice was here on MN.

Agree with @poetryandwine. Start looking at the Unis he's interested in now. Look at their admission criteria and course content and start looking at Open Days.

We went to open days in year 12.
College offered trips to uni’s but DS preferred to go ourselves.

He can create his UCAS Hub

Start research courses based on predicted grades. Your son can do this by looking at course modules on the university course description page

Research entry requirements. Not all courses require the MAT . UCAS and the Heap guide is useful for this. His college likely has a copy.

Book open days early

Cambridge is offering a ‘Think Cambridge’ programme starting this month

If he likes computing/ coding he may want to look at the CyberFirst info pages, They offer a residential summer school

Open days are typically end if year 12/ early year 13. There may be short courses or tasters during year 12 or over the summer, fir some unis and subjects. Some schools or colleges use platforms like unifrog to narrow down choices and format personal statements. Applications open on UCAS in September for following year's entry, Oxbridge, Medicine, Vet Med have earlier deadlines but most are
January. You can list up to five choices and add more later if you choose less than five initially.

I agree with PPs that taster courses, talks or other events could be especially valuable for your DS. They may help him choose between subjects. He might also want to consider joining the online forum TheStudentRoom, where he can ask UGs in various degree programmes quite specific questions.

Thanks folks all so helpful

I am assuming current predicted grades might change so its just a guidance for now? They are worried the oxbridge route is too high pressure for them but their grades are top drawer and have always been - any thoughts? Don't want to be pushy but feel good they keep options open and do some visits / tasters etc to feel their way in?

Will look at the links you suggest

Have checked and the school is offering a parents event in couple of months to talk through the process which is great help

I am assuming current predicted grades might change so its just a guidance for now? They are worried the oxbridge route is too high pressure for them but their grades are top drawer and have always been - any thoughts? Don't want to be pushy but feel good they keep options open and do some visits / tasters etc to feel their way in?

It's still fairly early and grades can indeed change. DS's went up however his BF's went down, a few times but that might be linked to the fact he never did any work...

The Oxbridge thing can be stressful. We didn't go down that route but have friends whose DCs did last year and a couple who are this year.

I think it's entirely up to them if they want to apply, I'd support them but not push it as an option.

Schools vary a lot with the amount of UCAS help they give but lots of resources and advice is available online via websites like The Student Room.
Its a bit early but after Easter it would be good for your child to attend a couple of Uni open days ( look on their websites for dates and when booking opens) attend some subject talks there and start to get a feel for what they like in a Uni.

@Starrburst personally I think waiting for open days doesn't give them a proper feel for how it is when there are actual students there. Campus universities in particular feel a bit dead as the open days are often near the end of term or after the term has actually finished so no students bustling about.

If you don't have plans for February half term use that to visit a couple of unis. You can self tour places and it is encouraged. Narrowing down at this stage means open days in June/July feel more productive. This does of course depend on where you are in the country and how accessible in terms of travel they are. Or in May half term.

He should start by googling top unis for maths and seeing what their entry requirements are and although some don't have a compulsory maths admission test it is recommended. The applicant can voluntarily provide their results to the universities which can result in a lower offer grade. TMUA and MAT are taken early November (year 13) with results out late November whereas Step is taken in June and the results come out in August alongside A level results. There are past papers online plus some YouTube help with all of those papers.

Computer science for top universities would need further maths which I assume he is taking if he enjoys maths. For Oxford it would be MAT admissions test and Cambridge would be CTMUA which is the TMUA but the results automatically go to Cambridge and Cambridge pay for the test. Usually the sixth form provides a room for these tests to be taken but ask and make sure. Otherwise you book in at a local test centre. It is a day for tests because medicine, law, languages etc are on the same day. Apart from those 2 unis asking for an admissions test I don't believe many of the others do.

Some sixth forms are helpful and proactive but some are not. Ds was looking at LSE and they stated that 1776 personal statements started with "From a young age I have (always) been..." so a teacher has read that and given it the green light. Also 148 applicants quoted Nelson Mandela on education.

Whilst looking at universities consider the location from home and how long it would take you to get there to move them in and how feasible it would be to empty their room for Christmas and Easter which is a possibility depending on the uni. Would they be able to come home for a weekend mid-semester? Would they want to? This also works in reverse if you wanted to visit them. Any more questions just ask. Some Mnetters have been through this several times.

@Starrburst and @ChopTheMushrooms Writing as a former STEM admissions tutor I do not advise sitting STEP unless required by the Firm offer. In a typical year 50% of Cambridge Maths offer holders fail the STEP condition of their offer and C, who write the paper, say openly that they use it to control numbers. Preparing for STEP is intensive and takes time away from other important things

@poetryandwine I think Step is horrific but my child didn't want to do maths at uni. I was pointing out that the other maths entrance exams take place in November and you know the results in November. Step is cruel because you can get the grades and still not get the uni place and you find out on results day. The bar feels very high for Step. Also can I thank you for your contribution to these threads because it is nice to have insider knowledge on these things.

I have two in Y12 taking those subjects and glad you started this thread! I feel.out of touch. What are the MAT tests please?

Hi, hope you don't mind me joining.
My DS is also in year 12 and considering maths at uni.
He says he would rather do STEP than exams in the autumn of year 13 but his college suggested he should consider doing TMUA if he is applying for maths. I thought MAT was only for Oxford but do other unis look at it too? He is a strong mathematician (recently did BMO1) but his GCSEs are very spread as he is also dyslexic and struggled with English and only got 4s. How much do Universities care about GCSEs or would strong predicted grades in his A levels mean it doesn't matter so much?

MAT = Maths Admissions Test. Oxford's admissions exam for maths and computer science. Sat in November of Y13 and used by Oxford (along with some other pieces of information) to determine which candidates are invited to interview. Imperial and Warwick also use MAT and some other unis take it into consideration (eg might give a lower offer if you have a good MAT score). More information here: www.maths.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate-study/maths-admissions-test

For what it's worth, DS1 (doing maths at Oxford) thinks any decent a level maths student can probably get a good score in MAT if they dedicate enough time to practising past papers...

TMUA: Cambridge's maths/CS aptitude test, usually takes place on the same day as MAT (so you can't do both). For Cambridge maths you also have to do STEP in summer of Y13 and as others have said it's a gruelling process that results in about 50% of maths offers getting withdrawn. I think I'm right in saying you don't have to do STEP for computer science at Cambridge though. TMUA results are also used by Warwick, Bath and a few other places. More info here: www.admissionstesting.org/for-test-takers/test-of-mathematics-for-university-admission/

NB TMUA is being withdrawn from 2024 onwards and there's no planned replacement (but this year's Y12s will still need to take it).

Sorry I got some of that TMUA info wrong - Cambridge Maths applicants don't have to sit TMUA I think (though economics and compsci applicants do). But I guess if you sit it it will give you a sense of how well you're doing and a good score will also help get reduced maths offers from some other unis.

Look at open days for the courses they are interested in, do get an idea from the school about what level you should be looking at but I would look at options either side as schools can sometimes not get a good picture of ability until the end of year 12. Get dc to consider whether they would like to stay close or move further, whether they prefer a campus, smaller town or city?

And remember it's their choice, so often parents seem to want to take over these days. Don't push them, it's perfectly reasonable for them to apply after a levels if they aren't ready to apply yet, plenty of people on DD's course started like her in their 20's

I think the advice from @ChopTheMushrooms is very good. We started about half term in Y12 if I remember properly by just walking around a couple of Unis that DS was interested in so that he could get a feel for Campus versus City.

@IThinkIMadeItWorse STEP is brutal, year after year students hit the top grades but do not get their place at Cambridge because of STEP. Cambridge house their students in their colleges for all 3 years of the degree, therefore they have a very set number of places that they don't want their offered applicants to succeed. The natural grade boundary curve helps and STEP ensures a lot miss out.

For computer science Cambridge pays for TMUA which they call CTMUA for Cambridge Test of Mathematics for University Admission. For the other unis like Warwick, Durham, Manchester, they don't require it but some of the London ones possibly do. Start them looking now. Ds had a spreadsheet to keep track of everything he had looked at.

@gogohmm I think parents are more invested usually because they are expected to sell a kidney pay toward their child's uni costs. The minimum maintenance loan doesn't even come close to covering some first year halls of residence. Ds was grateful to have 2 parents to talk things through with. Dh and I had very different experiences of uni.

@middleager definitely start them looking now. See what courses are out there, maths can be combined with lots of different subjects, same with computer science. There are different entrance exams and the whole of year 12 summer to experience, read, watch, attend summer schools, complete courses and do things to pack out their personal statement plus practise papers if they are going to have to sit an entrance exam.

There are campus unis, city unis, some sprawling across the city, each one with a different feel. Best to feel it full of students which means either Feb or May half term. Look at accommodation offered and costs. Some like Warwick have a wide range of prices from £85 a week for a 40 week let or at their top end £218 a week for 40 weeks so a £5k difference for a room for their first year. That is self catered for both.

This is why I suggest research starts now. It is so much more than grades and courses. Plus it can motivate them for their year 12 mocks.

Wiwiau is good if you're not already a member.

Great thread packed with such useful information.

DS is in the same boat, considering either maths or comp sci at uni. We would be very happy if he went to imperial. Were considering Cambridge but reading this has put me off.

This weekend is going to be very busy with research and spreadsheets!

Hi, @Amboseli - Imperial Maths also uses STEP! But perhaps their offer is less brutal than the Cambridge offer

@poetryandwine really?! Oh no.