Geography does it matter where the degree is from?

[Myjobisanightmare]

My child got predominantly 9s at teacher assessed GCSES and went on to do A levels in Biology chemistry and geography

it was obvious after a couple of months they were struggling at the moment their predicted grades are A B C with the A in Geography and that’s what they want to do at Uni

I think BCD is possible if they don’t put enough work in so we’re looking at ABC to BCD in terms her 5 UCAS options

Those grades aren’t good enough for std Russell Group entry requirements but they do meet some contextual requirements

Since going on open days and having my eyes opened as to what we’re realistically going to have to give as a parental contribution is it terrible of me to question exactly what grades are we willing to give them the best part of £6-8k/year for

Should we be as ok with them getting a CDD and giving them up to £8k to move away and do a Geography degree in a Uni towards the bottom of the league tables as we would if they worked hard got ABC and scraped into a Russel group on a contextual

Im sorry if this sounds bad but it’s a lot of money I’m totally out of my depth and I’d appreciate any input that will help me get my head around it

There are perfectly good Unis locally but they want to move away

I did a Geography degree and of my cohort there is a huge variety of careers following graduation, although I fully agree that the university itself was more important than the subject for most of us. I'm now in professional services, but have friends who are in NHS management, banking, teaching, academia, law, property investment, surveying, town planning, life coaching, management consulting, oil trading and two who run their own businesses.

Geography teaches you a lot of useful transferable skills if you can get into a good uni but you can also get great training doing higher apprenticeship courses, where the equivalent of a degree is paid for by the employer. They mught be worth looking at for your DC.

Two of my lawyer children read Geography BSc. (and then did law after although law does like fairly high A level grades). I think it is a pity your son did biology and chemistry A level. One of my geographer children did chemistry and I think did find it hard, harder than economics and geography (her other A levels and physics to AS). The other one did Geog, history and economics A levels (and music to AS level) and then the BSc at Bristol.

It is hard to know what you feel you ought to pay. I would not have funded a subject which I felt was not likely to help them gain a good career unless they had a definite plan and could explain it to me but I was certainly pleased all of my children went to university.

Here in this case the TAGs were very high - 9s, but they were not real exams so perhaps they just hid the reality? Or may be the A level subjects were not the right choices. It may be worth the money just so your child can move away, grow up etc and all those things going to university gives you. May be try Bristol which has a contextual offer system. One of my twins who went there (his twin went there too) said those with contextual offers did fine and often ended up with as high A level grades as if they hadn't had a contextual offer in the first place anyway.

Make sure there is a mixture of institutions on his list in case the A levels go badly. He could also resit A levels and have a gap year and apply the year after. Also you have no legal obligation to make his minimum 4300 loan to the maximum 9500 or whatever the sums are. he could get a job all summer to earn money and make sure he is in cheaper accommodation in his university city eg a room share never mind a flat share and other things to keep it much cheaper.

Those grades aren’t good enough for std Russell Group entry requirements but they do meet some contextual requirements

Does your DD qualify for the contextual offers? And if so, is she actually interested in the course/ location etc of the universities whose contextual offers she thinks she can meet?

Is there any scope for demonstrating to her teacher(s) that the C prediction could reasonably be increased to a B in the first couple of weeks back after Christmas?

Lots of good suggestions already, but just to give you a more positive take on the whole situation @Myjobisanightmare DD2 got A level grades within the range you are talking about – she went to a fairly average Secondary Modern which didn't have much experience of students doing more than 1 'hard' science A level, though they tried hard to help – and she attended a mid-rank former poly for her undergraduate degree.

She absolutely thrived. She found the university style of teaching and learning much more to her liking than school, which encouraged her to put more and more effort into her studies. As a result she was able to 'upgrade' and obtain a place on a highly academic Masters course at a world-leading specialist STEM university. The harder it got, the more she enjoyed it and she ultimately gained a distinction. She now has a first-class Masters, is looking at a PhD and guess what? Nobody ever asks her about her A level results any more. Going to a 'lesser' university initially doesn't have to be the end of the road academically if you don't want it to be.

Hi yes meets a good 3 contextual requirement and yes the before Xmas mock results which she’ll get next week will tell her if the C can be a B but reality is a C would be brilliant from completely failing a year ago

That’s brilliant to hear I think I’ve finally got through to her the other night that if she can’t get the grades for RG level then she stays home and goes somewhere similar to what you described

I explained that the conversation wasn’t about writing her off it was about covering all bases and if she can’t get decent grades while living at home not having to think about any grown up stuff that can only tell us that she’ll find it really difficult if she went away

i wasn’t arsey but I made it clear that I need to see her starting to be a bit more mature in how she thinks showing that she’s capable of life away from home and not just swept away on some idealistic idea of what student life will be like

Based on your posts, my main concern would be not so much the ranking of the university your DC goes to, but whether your DC has the self-discipline and maturity needed to avoid getting thrown off the course (or possibly emerging from a low ranking institution with a third class honours).

I agree with this. If you think that your DD isn't thriving due to not being sufficiently spoonfed she will get a shock when she gets to university that there is no spoon feeding at all. Students don't get chased or reminded about outstanding assignments, they just get lower marks for handing in work late.

As a result she was able to 'upgrade' and obtain a place on a highly academic Masters course at a world-leading specialist STEM university. The harder it got, the more she enjoyed it and she ultimately gained a distinction. She now has a first-class Masters, is looking at a PhD

I teach at a RG university in a department where we are regularly top in all the league tables, and what @thing47 describes is quite common for our MA students. They get a reasonable undergrad degree at a university that's easy to get into (in my field the lower ranked non-research-intensive universities have loads of places for my discipline) and they use my place as a 'stepping up.' They usually do well once they've got used to our much higher standards.

It's definitely a way to look at a career holistically. But what you say about your DD's "wanting a life" @Myjobisanightmare suggests that she needs to mature a bit, before she can see the long game.

Also Geography is not a hard science where nearly everyone gets a job. Upgrading for geographers doesn’t necessarily mean better employment prospects.

No indeed @TizerorFizz, in some cases it can even be a BA rather than a BSc. Although my understanding is that it's quite a sought-after degree these days, I suppose because it can lead onto quite a wide range of careers it's considered a sort of 'gateway' degree. I'm sure some geographers can come along to correct me if I'm mistaken.

Your word of warning is apposite too. DD2's 'upgrading' may actually have harmed her short-term employment prospects – her undergraduate degree was a broadly vocational one which leads down 2 or 3 specific paths. She decided none of those really appealed (driven in part by her experiences during her placement year) so she now has a less obviously defined career path. She is, however, much more highly qualified so hopefully that will pay off in the longer term.

Most geographers I know have indeed used the degree as a gateway. Only a handful have done a masters. Even those are not guaranteeing anything without lots of thought about jobs. Most went on to do professional qualifications.

I'm guessing your daughter is in year 13 so needs to make decisions quickly. Haa she finished her personal statement?

Given she can apply for 5 and is eligible for contextual offers I would suggest she goes for 1 optimistic choice, one a grade higher than mock grades then 2 at her grade level and a safety.

I would also look at degrees with a foundation year, they are a year longer (so more cost) but have lower entry grades for "better" unis.

Here is Liverpool's foundation degree, so she could still go to a Russell Group uni. digital.ucas.com/coursedisplay/courses/f93a54b0-1309-c79a-1071-56c41c407322?academicYearId=2023

Getting it wrong at Alevel isn't uncommon and where a lot of people realise they need to put effort in to get the rewards they want in life. Not a bad lesson to learn.

I think that for the more traditional (school taught) academic subjects such as English, MFL, Maths, History, Geography etc, the 'rank' of the uni probably matters more than a more career-specific course such as Medicine or Engineering.

Having said this, many Geography degrees now have 'professional placement years' which may make a difference.

Also, the world is changing. The key challenge for the next generation will be tackling issues of global inequality, climate change and sustainability. No degree is better placed to analyse all these issues than Geography. Never has it been such a relevant subject and, as a result, applications to say, Cambridge for geography have risen from 4 per place to 6/7 per place (just as an example). It is now as competitive as Natural Sciences at Cambridge (in terms of applicant numbers to places). The subject is highly dynamic and current. Geographers are flexible thinkers and this is one if the few degrees that can span the sciences and social sciences (or not, depending on modules).

Of the most successful people I know (eg multi-millionaire entrepreneurs and job-creators with MBEs and university depts named after them and this type of thing) they all did geography as a first degree. It is easy to do a more 'specialist' Masters or MBA and most will anyway. But geography will definitely be one of the most relevant subjects for the next generation. Climate change will affect all ecosystems, economies, political systems, global trade flows, human migration patterns, economic inequality - everything! This is what a geography degree is about and it's certainly not useless or just colouring in!

Geography lecturer here. I did my undergraduate degree at an institution ranked in the 20s in the league table pasted on the previous page. So not fantasy, but not bad either. Most of my circle of friends have ended up in somewhat related jobs, sometimes after a master's degree in something specific/in-demand like GIS mapping or a professional qualification like rural surveying.

One thing to look out for when choosing a university is how interdisciplinary the degree is. Many (most?) geography degrees will cover human geography and physical geography, but the extent to which each are covered can vary. Depending on her interest in social sciences she might want to look for courses with a greater or lesser proportion of social science modules.

If she has zero interest in social sciences then other options like environmental science degrees might also be a good choice.

Thank you for your insight they’re definitely interested in Env science too

@Myjobisanightmare
Look at the Env Science courses at Liverpool. A great choice of courses. I do know maths is useful for some of these courses. So check if there’s a catch up module for maths as she’s not planning to do A level maths. I suspect some modules are shared with geographers but Env Science is possibly more focussed towards work.

Definitely not clever enough for A level maths 😂 but did get an A in AS core maths( is that what it’s called? )That’s something that can help with a contextual offer at some Unis

They’d give their right leg to get into Liverpool Uni Geog or Env Sci Bsc I’ll just have to continue to nag and cross fingers