Geography does it matter where the degree is from?

[Myjobisanightmare]

My child got predominantly 9s at teacher assessed GCSES and went on to do A levels in Biology chemistry and geography

it was obvious after a couple of months they were struggling at the moment their predicted grades are A B C with the A in Geography and that’s what they want to do at Uni

I think BCD is possible if they don’t put enough work in so we’re looking at ABC to BCD in terms her 5 UCAS options

Those grades aren’t good enough for std Russell Group entry requirements but they do meet some contextual requirements

Since going on open days and having my eyes opened as to what we’re realistically going to have to give as a parental contribution is it terrible of me to question exactly what grades are we willing to give them the best part of £6-8k/year for

Should we be as ok with them getting a CDD and giving them up to £8k to move away and do a Geography degree in a Uni towards the bottom of the league tables as we would if they worked hard got ABC and scraped into a Russel group on a contextual

Im sorry if this sounds bad but it’s a lot of money I’m totally out of my depth and I’d appreciate any input that will help me get my head around it

There are perfectly good Unis locally but they want to move away

Siggest they do a gap year and save $$$$ ?
Why are they struggling?
What do they want to do with their degrree? Can they look at degree apprenticeship
Would you be ok to pay up if they go to "good" uni? Why?

My immediate thought on reading the OP is that something has gone significantly wrong here. A student who is genuinely capable of getting predominantly grade 9s at GCSE really should not be contemplating grades as low as BCD at A level. So OP I think you need to work out what is going wrong in order to decide how to handle the situation. Various possibilities occur:
-teacher-assessed grades at GCSE were significantly inflated and there is no way student would have got predominantly grade 9s at GCSE had the student actually sat GCSE exams;
-student was clever enough to coast at GCSE and is therefore coming unstuck at A level where even clever students need to put a significant amount of work in to get the highest grades;
-student made unwise subject choices at A level and didn't pick the subjects in which student was likely to get the highest grades;
-student is being poorly taught;
-student worked hard for GCSEs, but has slacked off at A level.

Obviously there could be a combination of factors at play, but it's important to work out what's going on. For example, a student who is not right at the top of the pack in terms of being academically gifted may still do well at university if he or she works hard. A student who only gets down to work if a teacher or parent is breathing down their neck is at high risk of falling hopelessly behind at university and ultimately dropping out.

Everyone of your points are valid to various degrees

Some of their GCSEs were inflated let’s face it a lot were
No longer being spoon fed is a shock to the system
Absolutely chose wrong A levels due to the inflated GCSEs
Yes is lazy disorganised and likes having a life

So yes if this is the situation now where will
things end up I’m really not sure only real exam results will tell me and where should we draw the line in financing it

Thank you for putting things way more eloquently than I ever could

I have a geography degree (which leads to a lifetime of jokes about colouring in...) from one of the more prestigious RG unis.

Whether the uni matters depends on your future career. If you're going for a more selective career that's not directly linked to your degree, the uni is as, if not more, important than the degree itself (provided it's something academic). Unless you're going into something vocational/specific to geography but none of my degree cohort did (most went into accountancy, banking and some onto a law conversion degree.

I'm all for uni being beyond the academic but I'm not sure I'd want to fund it in your circumstances, if money is tight and it's not a prerequisite for their career.

Instead of Geography, look at degrees like Planning where there’s a far better chance of employment. It’s a career where there’s a shortage of young grads. Not sure what A level grades would be needed, but not that high! I feel you do have dilemma so I would say degree should be vocational in an area where grads are needed.

I should add, in defence of my degree, that geography graduates tend to feature highly in the employability stats. I guess it's the arts/science/maths crossover perhaps.

A geography degree is a very common route into professional services (I know this makes next to no sense but it's part of the quirkiness of the U.K. system). My cousin also went into planning with his geography degree.

I think it hinges on what they'd like to do with the geography degree. Any non-vocational degree from a 'lower' uni (I don't mean that in a snobbish way) carries the risk of spending a lot of money for not much upside.

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/geography-and-environmental-science

That's a really interesting table, I'm going to use it for my younger son when he's looking at unis.

I did a degree in Rural Enterprise and Land Management - lots of elements and modules shared with geography but a year paid placement, 99% course employment rate and your placement year counts as the first year of becoming a chartered surveyor. You just need to do the second year as a grad job.

Absolutely agree with @Boosterquery - a student getting predominantly 9s at GCSE should be expecting A/A* grades at A level but I’m less kind in my assessment of reasons - I think the school has let down your child badly unless they have had a total personality/work ethic change between Year 11 and 12.
This said, I endorse what previous posters have said. If they can get good enough grades for Russell Group geography, all well and good; otherwise your money would be much better spent supporting them through a vocational degree or apprenticeship.
What’s more, given that there has been this dramatic shift in attainment (and it is dramatic, make no mistake), I think there are some serious questions to ask as to whether this is a student who has the motivation and time management and independent study skills required to thrive on an academic degree course.
In your position, I’d be giving the school quite a hard time over this (assuming there hasn’t been a change?)

Similarly to a PP, I did a Land Economy degree and went on to become a chartered surveyor.

Does the school have a careers advisor? I'd encourage her to speak to them and get some advice. Also it isn't too late to try to turn her grades around.

I think you're right to consider the worth of a degree given how much the fees are nowadays and how much debt is involved.

Lots of interesting points thank you all

my child moved from a good comp with no sixth form (virtually none have this neck of the woods)to an outstanding sixth form so by rights we should in a better position and to be fair they do seem pretty on the ball and some teachers are excellent (they’ll also have the odd teacher come through that absolutely shouldn’t be a teacher for various reasons and your child gets taught by them and has a shitty experience but that’s the case in every setting my kids have attended)

I think it’s more so they’ve grown up they’re no longer the studious little mouse with a small life, they now have a big circle of friends who mostly aren’t v academic and there’s always a social gathering in the works and they’re incapable of missing out on anything

I have said straight for months I wouldn’t throw money at poor grades as my head generally overrules my heart but they’re an immature kid entirely ruled by heart and wants the uni experience no matter what and I love them an want them to be happy

I know I need a serious talk with them as someone said above Uni is even more independent learning and if that’s what is letting them down now living at home with easy access to a income and all the comforts that home brings how will the manage when everything is their responsibility

They should have done, or be on the verge of doing, their UCAS form now, having spent the summer at open days and looking at grade requirements of individual universities.

What's happened to all of that? What unis have they chosen?

From everything you say OP, the idea of your DC going away to university in the coming year is ringing alarm bells. Lots of students away from home for the first time focus more on social life than academic study. However, many of those students will knuckle down and get enough work done once deadlines start looming. It sounds like your DC may lack the self-discipline/maturity to do this. The other issue you will face is that in many university cities it's become the norm to sign up for a second year house before Christmas in the first year, with landlords only prepared to let if the parent acts as guarantor. So if your DC ends up failing the first year of university you could find that you have not just wasted the first year's finance, but that you are liable for a full year's rent on second year accommodation.

One possible route would be to say that your DC must take a gap year and save up enough to make a contribution of £X towards their maintenance at university. The amount should be achievable, but meaningful. A gap year gives your DC a chance to do some growing up. Their ability (or lack of ability) to defer gratification enough to save a meaningful amount towards university will give you an idea of whether your DC has enough self-discipline and maturity to succeed at university.

Based on your posts, my main concern would be not so much the ranking of the university your DC goes to, but whether your DC has the self-discipline and maturity needed to avoid getting thrown off the course (or possibly emerging from a low ranking institution with a third class honours).

Did a few that’s part of what makes me worried as the cost of the halls we visited were 1.5/2k more than what I expected

She is capable if she really tries I’m hoping I’ll see it more over the next six months and I know she’d love to go to one of the RG universities we visited and I’m hoping that’ll spur her on

But this thread is all about me trying to make sense of what we should do if things don’t go well nothing is off the table ie gap year just wish I had a crystal ball

I wonder what idea she has formed of the university experience that she’s so keen on? Does she want to be away from home hanging out with mates, and does she realise how much of being a student actually involves studying? What is it exactly that she’s got her heart set on?
It sounds distinctly possible that she has a very distorted idea of university life. She should certainly be being helped to make a fully informed judgement as to whether it’s really for her. As everyone here has pointed out, it’s a huge amount of money to lose if it doesn’t work out.

dont battle they have to find their way.
And take responsibility.
Theonly way to force that is by them leaving to the somewhat cosseted uni life
If her predicted grades already submitted that is what you have to go on.
Post grads can be done later if relevant for career.

Well pretty much all unis have cheaper halls - the ones shown on open days are the nicer more expensive ones - but there are also more in demand, so self catered shared bathroom should be available for less than £5k - about minimum loan amount, leaving you say £300 a month during term time to fund her.

Wait and see what offers she gets, and have a sensible discussion about which ones to firm and insure given the grades she's working at around Easter.

Does she have an eventual career path in mind? Standard geographer path is postgrad chartered surveyor - an in demand career with entry requirements of 2:1 from anywhere.

Very often they go into overdrive latter half of year 13 and demonstrate what they can do when push comes to shove. Either way don't make any hard fast decisions now - come results you'll have a better idea of whether she will make a go of uni or whether she'd be likely to fail the first year (this is very rare tbh). Don't get too hung up about RG vs non RG. It's a pretty meaningless divide.

Most geography degrees lean towards either BA (Human Geog) or BSc (Physical Geog). Some are exclusively one or the other.
If the science A-levels are proving an issue, would less sciencey Human Geography degree be a better option than pursuing more lab work? It's a social science, more akin to sociology or anthropology as far as I can see. Have a look at Leicester and Aberystwyth for mainly Bs, Swansea and Cardiff and QMUL for the upper grade ranges. All good universities which aren't top end and may have more flexibility in grades. All is not lost.

Don't apply this year.

Get the results out the way , take a gap year , reassess, then apply.

Bear in mind that our children will be working until probably they are 70 plus so a year will not make any difference.

On the plus side, a large sixth form (like PS?) does prepare them well for university life, so they are less likely to make the same mistakes again.

I would encourage a gap year, see if there are any apprenticeships available and then apply IF they are still interested in geography with more certainty.

I think it hinges on what they'd like to do with the geography degree. Any non-vocational degree from a 'lower' uni (I don't mean that in a snobbish way) carries the risk of spending a lot of money for not much upside.

This is very good advice. But ...

If your DD got into a lower-rated university and did well (because one of the reasons some universities are lower-rated is because their students are less able, hard as that is to swallow) - if she came out with quite a valuable degree - a solid upper Second or a First, then she might be capable of doing quite well in a career after that.

But it does depend on what she wants to do, and her work ethic at university. If she received 9s in her GCSEs, and is looking at BCD at A level, then there's an issue, as PPs have outlined.

Is she cut out for university at the moment? A couple of years working or an apprenticeship might be better for her. If she wants the 'student life' without the studying, working would be far better.

The best topographical surveyors (for architecture) have Geography degrees and it doesn't matter what university they're from x

^ e.g many of our local surveyors (for architecture. Not estate agent!) have University of Plymouth Geography degrees via local colleges.

Is she dead set on geography? Because she has perfect science for adjacent subjects that have lower offers as they are less sought after subjects. I am thinking of environmental science/environmental geoscience, oceanography and sustainability degrees. Look at eg Marine Geography and Environmental geoscience at Cardiff (offers BBC and will take a drop in grades), environmental geoscience at Glasgow (being Scottish she can also take geography in first year and then eventually graduate in geography, but the entry level is lower for environmental geoscience) (they also only charge English students 3 years fees for a 4 year course), oceanography at Plymouth (well regarded for their marine science degrees but not RG)